www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Episcopalians to break with national church

I apologize if my post offended you.

However, allow me to ask you a question:

If the church you attended is as you described; if, as you wrote, I've heard more watered-down versions of the Gospel in RC churches; then is the church you attended truly liberal Christianity?

Clearly, there are parts of the Episcopal Church that are not practicing liberal Christianity. In fact, as the lead story of this thread informs, one part of the Episcopalian Church is so true to the Gospel that it is breaking off from the rest in order to remain attached to the orthodox portion of the Anglican communion. With that I have no complaint, nor with the rest of orthodox Anglicans.

It is the rest I wonder about and was referring to in my post.

-- John

Dear Roman,

Those two verses are indeed taken from the poem I'm looking for - but can you find the whole text? It's quite pleasant.

Fr. Serge

This may have some typological errors, I got it from Google Books and copied it from its text view.

I.
OH! the good old times of England, ere in her evil day,
Prom their Holy Faith, and her ancient rites, her people fell away;
When her gentlemen had hands to give, and her yeomen hearts to feel ;
And they raised full many a bead-house, but never a bastile ;
And the poor they honored, for they knew that He who for us bled,
Had seldom, when He came on earth, whereon to lay His head;
And by the poor man's dying bed the holy pastor stood,
To fortify the parting soul with that celestial Food.

II.
And in the mortal agony the priest ye might behold,
Commending to his Father's hands a sheep of his own fold;
And, when the soul was fled from earth, the Church could do yet more;
For the chanting priests came slow in front, and the Cross went on before,
And o'er the poor man's pall they bade the sacred banner wave,
To teach her sons that Holy Church hath victory o'er the grave;
But times and things are altered now, and Englishmen begin
To class the beggar with the knave, and poverty with sin.

III.
We shut them up from tree and flower, and from the blessed sun;
We tear in twain the hearts that God in wedlock had made one�
The hearts that beat so faithfully, reposing side by side,
For fifty years of weal and woe, from eve till morning-tide;
No gentle nun with her comfort sweet, no friar standeth nigh,
With ghostly strength and holy love, to close the poor man's eye;
But the corpse is thrown into the ground, when the prayers are hurried o'er,
To rest in peace a little while, and then make way for more.

IV.
We mourn not for abbey lands, e'en pass they as they may I
But we mourn because the tyrant found a richer spoil than they;
He cast away, as a thing defiled, the remembrance of the just,
And the relics of the martyrs he scattered to the dust;
Yet two, at least, in their holy shrines, escaped the spoiler's hand;
And S. Cuthbert and S. Edward might alone redeem a land!
And still our litanies ascend like incense, as before ;
And still we hold the one full faith Nicaea taught of yore.

V.
And still our children, duly plunged in the baptismal flood
Of water and the Holy Ghost, are made the Sons of God;
And still our solemn festivals from age to age endure,
And wedded troth remains as firm, and wedded love as pure
And many an earnest prayer ascends from many a hidden spot;
And England's Church is Catholic, though England's self be not!
England of Saints I the hour is come�for nigher it may be
Than yet I deem, albeit that day I may not live to see,

VI.
When all thy commerce, all thy arts, and wealth, and power, and fame,
Shall melt away at thy most need, like wax before the flame;
Then shalt thou find thy truest strength, thy martyrs' prayers above:
Then shalt thou find thy truest wealth, their holy deeds of love;
And thy Church, awaking from her sleep, come glorious forth at length,
And in sight of angels and of men, display her hidden strength.
Again shall long processions sweep through Lincoln's Minster pile;
Again shall banner, cross, and cone, gleam through the incensed aisle.

VII
And the faithful dead shall claim their part in the Church's thoughtful prayer,
And the daily sacrifice to God be duly offered there;
And tierce, and nones, and matins, shall have each their holy lay;
And the Angelus at Compline shall sweetly close the day.
England of Saints, the peace will dawn, but not without the fight;
So, come the contest, when it may, and God defend the right!

REV. J. M. Neale.

Dear Terry,

God reward you! I've been seeking this for quite some time. It's an inspiration.

Fr. Serge

Corrected a few typos - enjoy, everyone!

I.
OH! the good old times of England, ere in her evil day,
From their Holy Faith, and her ancient rites, her people fell away;
When her gentlemen had hands to give, and her yeomen hearts to feel ;
And they raised full many a bead-house, but never a bastile;
And the poor they honored, for they knew that He who for us bled,
Had seldom, when He came on earth, whereon to lay His head;
And by the poor man's dying bed the holy pastor stood,
To fortify the parting soul with that celestial Food.

II.
And in the mortal agony the priest ye might behold,
Commending to his Father's hands a sheep of his own fold;
And, when the soul was fled from earth, the Church could do yet more;
For the chanting priests came slow in front, and the Cross went on before,
And o'er the poor man's pall they bade the sacred banner wave,
To teach her sons that Holy Church hath victory o'er the grave;
But times and things are altered now, and Englishmen begin
To class the beggar with the knave, and poverty with sin.

III.
We shut them up from tree and flower, and from the blessed sun;
We tear in twain the hearts that God in wedlock had made one �
The hearts that beat so faithfully, reposing side by side,
For fifty years of weal and woe, from eve till morning-tide;
No gentle nun with her comfort sweet, no friar standeth nigh,
With ghostly strength and holy love, to close the poor man's eye;
But the corpse is thrown into the ground, when the prayers are hurried o'er,
To rest in peace a little while, and then make way for more.

IV.
We mourn not for our abbey lands, e'en pass they as they may
But we mourn because the tyrant found a richer spoil than they;
He cast away, as a thing defiled, the remembrance of the just,
And the relics of the martyrs he scattered to the dust;
Yet two, at least, in their holy shrines, escaped the spoiler's hand;
And S. Cuthbert and S. Edward might alone redeem a land!
And still our litanies ascend like incense, as before;
And still we hold the one full faith Nicaea taught of yore.

V.
And still our children, duly plunged in the baptismal flood
Of water and the Holy Ghost, are made the Sons of God;
And still our solemn festivals from age to age endure,
And wedded troth remains as firm, and wedded love as pure
And many an earnest prayer ascends from many a hidden spot;
And England's Church is Catholic, though England's self be not!
England of Saints! the hour is come�for nigher it may be
Than yet I deem, albeit that day I may not live to see,

VI.
When all thy commerce, all thy arts, and wealth, and power, and fame,
Shall melt away at thy most need, like wax before the flame;
Then shalt thou find thy truest strength, thy martyrs' prayers above:
Then shalt thou find thy truest wealth, their holy deeds of love;
And thy Church, awaking from her sleep, come glorious forth at length,
And in sight of angels and of men, display her hidden strength.
Again shall long processions sweep through Lincoln Minster pile;
Again shall banner, cross, and cope, gleam through the incensed aisle.

VII
And the faithful dead shall claim their part in the Church's thoughtful prayer,
And the daily Sacrifice to God be duly offered there;
And tierce, and nones, and matins, shall have each their holy lay;
And the Angelus at Compline shall sweetly close the day.
England of Saints, the peace will dawn, but not without the fight;
So, come the contest, when it may, and God defend the right!

REV. J. M. Neale.

The breaking of the stanzas is different in various sources I've seen. The title is "The Good Old Times of England".

One of the sources was a journal founded by Archbishop Kenrick, The Catholic Cabinet, and Chronicle of Religious Intelligence. http://books.google.com/books?id=TAMQAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA351&dq=%22undisguised+the+regret+for+the+religious+revolution+which+England%22&ei=qhcxR_KgEY-Q6ALF1vHdCQ&ie=ISO-8859-1

It has an editor's note: "So thoroughly Catholic is the tone that pervades this beautiful ballad, so undisguised the regret for the religious revolution which England has undergone, and so unconcealed the longing for the return of the 'holy faith and ancient rites' which have passed away, that it needs the assurance of the title-page to make one believe that the author is a zealous Anglican clergyman, who begins his work with a formal submission of all it contains to the judgment of Sanctissimae Matris Nostrae Ecclesiae Anglicanae!" [The Latin was hard to read.]