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I believe the Cardinals are cut off from all contact with the outside world - no TV, no radio, and no internet access. They have no idea how any of these polls are going. I do hope the Holy Spirit leads them to select the right candidate - not a foregone conclusion since the Holy Spirit can lead, but can also be ignored. We will know soon enough, but I did tell one of my friends that I hope the next pope is Catholic in more than name only. I can think of several Cardinals who are capable of doing a good job as Pope, so it's not like there's a dearth of qualified candidates. There are also a few that would cause many of us to hide out until the See is vacant again.

Dear Pani Rose,

I do not think that there is any need for you to apologize. I believe that more people should know the men from among whom the next successor of Peter will be chosen. From my point of view, the problem arises when someone wants to get in just one more punch at their most unfavorite cardinal. I will admit that there are some cardinals whose election would give me agida, but that would pass, for I believe with all my heart that the Holy Spirit gives the Church the pope it needs.

I appreciate your posts which are always thoughtful and interesting.

I wish you peace,

Charles

Good afternoon Charles.

The cardinals are not cut off from the outside world until they enter the conclave next Monday. I really don`t believe that any of them are interested in polls.

You are correct: the Holy Spirit leads. I just can`t imagine 115 cardinals refusing to follow the promptings of the Spirit. If we`re talking about the middle ages, that`s another story. It is truly amazing - and indicative of the truth of Christ`s promise to never desert His Church - that the Church survived some real scoundrels.

I, too, can think of some cardinals whose election would give me agida, but that would be temporary. Christ`s Church will survive and so shall we.

I wish you peace,

Charles

P.S.: Sorry for repeating the agida remark. It`s a sign of encroaching age. I don`t often repeat myself. That`s a sign of encroaching age.

Today, Dr Joaquin Navarro-Valls released the following satement:
"The cardinals recommend to the bishops and priests of the Church to use the formula of the Mass 'pro eligendo Summo Pontifice' which is found in the edizione tipica (Latin edition) of the Roman Missal. In this sense the cardinals renewed with insistence their exhortation to all the People of God to accompany with intense prayers these days of preparation for the Conclave so that the Holy Spirit may assist the cardinal electors."

The Cardinals are most certainly looking for the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned a "transitional pope". Blessed John XXIII was reckoned to be a "transitional pope", and look how the Holy Spirit prompted him to convene Vatican II. The mind of God certainly far surpasses the understanding of men.

Charles

Cardinal Mahony has invited speakers onto diocesan property who support abortion, homosexual marriage and oppose the Pope's authority. He has been supportive of pro-abortion and pro-homosexual politicians, not to mention that he has also made ambiguous statements on these topics. In addition his diocese has been called the most "gay friendly" in the United States.

All you need do is type into search engines the words "Cardinal Mahony" and "abortion or homosexuality" and you'll find more articles than you'll have time to read.

Lawrence,

Those are your allegations and you have not substantiated them. In your earlier post you accused Cardinal Mahony of deviation from "traditional Catholic teaching." If you cannot substantiate your allegations, I ask that you withdraw them. Telling me to put words into a search engine is not substantiating your accusations. Saying that "his diocese has been called the most`gay friendly`in the United States" is hearsay. It is your obligation to back up your accusations with proof - substantial proof, not innuendo or hearsay. The charges which you make are serious and they cannot go unsubstantiated.

I am looking forward to your proof of your allegations.

Peace,

Charles

Charles

I quote from The Tidings, a publication of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles for December 31 1999. Cardinal Mahony stated that "In the Archdiocese of Los Angeles I continue to support our ministry with gay and lesbian Catholics and their families in order to bring theirs gifts, talents and experiences to enrich the Local Church. We will continue to extend our welcome and our ministry to gay and lesbian Catholics throughout the Archdiocese, a ministry that will continue to remain a priority for our Church".

I think right here the Cardinal deviates from traditional Catholic teaching.

I thought this was interesting...

If reports are accurate, cardinals at last check were moving in a new direction when it comes to the next pope, away from one based on the locations of candidates -- their homelands -- and more toward style and ability to project universal charisma.

"Before the Pope's death, many cardinals and commentators said a decisive factor could be geography -- whether the next pope should come from Europe, where the church is shrinking, or from Latin America, Africa, or parts of Asia, where the church is experiencing rapid growth," reports The New York Times.

"But since the Pope's death, the cardinals have said they are looking for someone who can project universal appeal with a personal humility and pastoral presence that embodies the message of the Gospel, as they say John Paul did."

This new view reportedly came after cardinals witnessed the extraordinary eruption of affection for John Paul II -- which, with several million mourners flooding Rome, caught even the Vatican itself off guard. At least some cardinals, it appears, have realized that the key to his success was not in the words he used or the encyclicals but in his rapport with the Holy Spirit.

A move away from geography as the key factor could bode poorly for an Asian or African candidate such as Cardinal Francis Arinze of Nigeria, who is certainly spiritually strong (and staunchly conservative) but may not be what the voting cardinals perceive as universal in appeal -- stronger in style than many may prefer, although popular and leading the pack in one poll conducted by Newsweek among the general public in the U.S. (a poll the cardinals will almost surely never see).

If the cardinals decide to fall back to more traditional molds, two who may pull more to the fore are Italian cardinals Dionigi Tettamanzi and Giovanni Battista Re. Such names, however, can be tossed about forever, and no one really knows where the cardinals are heading. Latin America may yet be tapped as a middle ground, offering candidates that would have both universal appeal and represent a part of the world that the Vatican seeks to firm up.

the full article follows on
http://www.spiritdaily.com

Lawrence,

Really now! There is nothing in that statement which deviates from traditional Catholic teaching.

That is a statement from a hierarch who is reaching out to a group of Catholics who are often ostracized and treated in a most uncharitable manner by some people who call themselves good Christians and good Catholics.

Peace,

Charles

Lawrence,

To follow up on my previous post, the Gay & Lesbian Ministry is one of many in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles - and many other dioceses have such ministries.

If you peruse the website of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles - http://www.la-archdiocese.org/english/
- you will see a large number of ministries including Family Life, and in that area you will see a prominent section on Natural Family Planning which features an excerpt from "Humanae Vitae". You will also find the "Respect Life" ministry where you can read the following:
"The Office of Respect Life promotes the dignity and sanctity of human life from conception to natural death through programs advocating prayer, education, pastoral care and advocacy.

The Office functions as staff to the Archdiocesan Commission for Catholic Life Issues and works to implement its programs. The Office also acts in accordance the Pastoral Plan for Pro-Life Activities published by the Pro-Life Committee of the National Committee of Catholic Bishops in Washington DC."

This doesn`t sound like an archdiocese whose hierarch is pro-abortion. Quite to the contrary.

Peace,

Charles

Today must have been a deep dip in our East-West tango.

Surprisingly, Eastern Catholics took the place of some Eastern Orthodox (in other fora) in bashing our Cardinals, who are considered in the Latin Church as the highest in hierarchical dignity, next only to the Pope.

This unseasonal outburst, even if the thread was intended to be fun, should not be transformed into one making fun of the Cardinals.

If anybody here does not have a whit of a respect for any of them, please don't let that attitude redirected to the College of Cardinals from which our next Pope, the universal pastor of the Catholic Church, would certainly be elevated soon.

We are only on the 5th day of "novemdiales" and some have already lost respect for our 9-day mourning for our departed Pope!

Or, majority of Eastern Catholics do not consider themselves in communion with Rome anymore after the death of the beloved Pope John Paul II?

And Randy, I thought you were Latin Catholic? Otherwise, you are unaware how it deeply hurts the way you have taken our Church lightly. I can understand Lawrence, who is on his way East.

I join Charles B. in praying for a more charitable treatment of our Bishops, who happen to be called also "Cardinals!"

Amado

I hesitate to post on this thread.

I do have to say that I followed the links from the LA Archdiocese and came across the ministry to gay and lesbians:

http://mlgc.la-archdiocese.org/

Something about the site bothers me. I see references to "outdated Church teaching" and defending oneself against "charges of unorthodoxy" and `accepting people where they are'....(For example, under the "parent support group" info.)

I'm not saying an outreach is wrong. I'm just wondering if this is the way to do it.

Good evening and thanks for exploring parts of that site which I had not. After exploring them, I don`t have the same fears which you do.

Here is the paragraph putting the phrase "outdated church teachings" in context:

"The difference between the Catholic Parents support group and others for parents of gays and lesbians is its religious foundation and presence of a Catholic priest. Catholic parents typically experience a lack of knowledge about Church teachings and base their beliefs on outdated Church teachings, stereotypes, misconceptions, and ignorance. The participation of a priest allows for a direct dialog about Church teachings and the Church�s acceptance of gays and lesbians and inclusion in the Church of their baptism."

Before jumping all over this - and you did not - one should inquire about that phrase, for there are teachings which are de fide and those which are not.

Here is the paragraph containing the "accepting people where they are" phrase:

"5. MLGC chooses to follow a prudent pastoral course, accepting people where they are in their discipleship with Jesus Christ, and their membership in the Church, and challenging them to live out fully the call of Christ and the teachings of the Church." I believe that this paragraph should be read in toto, for it ends with what is absolutely orthodox teaching - "challenging them to live out fully the call of Christ and the teachings of the Church." I don`t see anything terrible there. All of us need to be so challenged, for none of us is without imperfection and sin.

The next paragraph is especially important:
"6. MLGC supports movements for homosexual and lesbian persons that are consonant with Church teaching, especially those which safeguard human dignity and promote human rights."

How much more clarity does one need? "...consonant with Church teaching...."

I wish you peace.

Charles

Maybe it is time to close the thread, however, I must say there are many disillusioned people out there, but I have found that discussing a Roman/Latin problem should be on Roman/Latin Forum.

The choice for the next Pope is not in our hands, pray that the Holy Spirit leads to a Cardinal/Bishop that is humble and wise in all matters, especially healing the divisive wounds within the Church.

james

I'll let the site speak for itself. I am bothered by the lack of explanation of what the teaching of the Church actually is and the necessity of living in harmony with the Church's teaching.