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Diak Offline OP
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VATICAN SAYS IT WILL NOT SET UP PATRIARCHATE IN UKRAINE
(AGI) Vatican City, Feb 21st Pope John Paul II will not set up a Greek-Catholic patriarchate in Ukraine as this might hurt the Russian Greek-Orthodox community, who would perceive it as an attempt at imposing Roman Catholic interests in an area which traditionally belongs to the Church of Moscow.

This is according to a note issued today by the Press Department of the Holy See on the strength of the decisions made in the 19th February meeting among the Head of Foreign Relations at the Moscow Patriarchate, the Smolensk and Kaliningrad Metropolitan Bishop, Kirill, and Chairman of the Papal Council for the Unity of Christians, Card. Walter Kasper. The meeting was also attended by the papal ambassador in Russia, Antonio Mennini.

According to the note, during the meeting, both parties examined the issues related to the relation between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church, particularly with regards to Russia and Ukraine. Cardinal Kasper confirmed that the Holy See has received a written reply from the Russian Orthodox Church concerning the possibility of setting up a Greek-Catholic patriarchate in Ukraine, as well as similar replies from all local Orthodox churches.

To this regard, the note says, Kasper stated that the common line endorsed by all Orthodox churches has been taken into serious account by authorities of the Roman Catholic Church. Therefore, the Catholic Church has assured its Orthodox counterpart that it is its intention to strengthen its positive relations with Orthodox churches. Both parties have agreed that, in order to solve any issues that may arise in the future with regards to relations between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church, a work group will be set up featuring members of both Churches. The aim of the group will be examining and solving these issues. (AGI) .
211802 FEB 04
No surprises here, at least to me. Business as usual. And you will notice, I hope, that the work group will be made of two (RC and MP), not three Churches (RC-MP-UGCC). And there's more:

Quote
VATICAN-RUSSIA, POPE MAY RENOUNCE UKRAINE PATRIARCHATE
(AGI) - The Vatican, Feb 21 - The long-distance dialogue between the Vatican and Moscow is becoming more likely. The confirmation of this comes from the latest news from a press statement released today by the Holy See about the mission that Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Pontiff's Council for the Unity of Christians is carrying out in Russia. Or rather, the possible renouncement of establishing a Greek-Catholic Patriarchate in the Ukraine, that Russia would have seen as an attempt by the Holy See to impose itself outside Rome on territory that traditionally belongs to the Russian Church.

And another confirmation comes from the fact that Pope John Paul II's envoy will put off his return to Rome for a couple of days because he is looking at the possibility of meeting the Russian Orthodox Patriarch, Alexis II, in Moscow on Monday when he returns to the Russian capital. In fact, Alexis II has been in Switzerland for the past few days for health reasons, due to which he had to cancel a scheduled meeting during the long and delicate phase of finalising the mission of the president of the Pontiff's Council for the Unity of Christians.

In fact, the lack of definite news on why this religious meeting between Patriarch Alexis II and the Pontiff's envoy didn't take place immediately suggested to commentators that there had been other signs of difficulty in the dialogue between the Vatican and the Russian Orthodox church. The latter has continued to criticise the Holy See for years on account of the Pontiff's decision to establish the Catholic Church on former USSR territory, starting with the Ukraine.

There, the Holy Father's intention had been to establish a religious body that would also refer to Rome. Not only has Moscow been critical of the Patriarchate, but also, in the last few days, the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. Their head, Bartholomew I, had even written a desperate letter to Pope John Paul II, urging him not to establish a Greek-Catholic Patriarchate in the Ukraine. This institution had been the desire of the Uniates, the Greek-Catholic faithful who, in 1946, saw their Church being destroyed by Stalin, through acts by the so-called Synod of Leopold. With the reforms introduced by Mikhail Gorbachov, the Uniates were once again free to follow their own religion.

They demanded and got their religious buildings back, that the regime preceding Gorbachov's era had transferred to the Orthodox Church. However, this restitution deprived the Orthodox community of their own parishes. Raising new controversies. On the other hand, the contention in the Ukraine between the Greek-Catholics and the Orthodox was only a small part of the total sum of misunderstandings and injuries that had not been dealt with.

They had, up to then, prevented a real constructive dialogue between the Roman Church and the Church of Moscow, to the point of being the reason for the Patriarch Alexis II refusing to meet the Pope, either on Russian territory (by refusing to let Pope John Paul II on Russian territory) or in other places during ecumenical meetings to which the Orthodox Patriarch had been invited. Now, however, this is important news and signals a new era in the relations between the Vatican and the Russian Church, starting with the renunciation of establishing a Greek-Catholic Patriarchate in the Ukraine so as not to offend the sensitivities of the Orthodox Russians.

Up to now they have built a wall in any inter-religious dialogue in that part of Europe. And now the most onerous task will fall to the group formed to oversee this work, the members of whom are representatives of both the Churches. The group's objective is to formulate proposals for the solution to open questions in the relations between the Vatican and the Patriarchate of Moscow. (AGI) .
I hope this will shed some light on some as to what is actually going on right now. The UGCC Patriarchate is simply not on Rome's "to do" list for the near future. Without Kasper's full fiat, the Pope will obviously not even consider this issue.

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Diak,

I agree with you, no suprise here at all. In fact, I think it's sad that it seems (and probably is) purely 100% political.

Why do we need approval because in theory, aren't we a self-governing church? And if we are, won't other inidivual churches within the Catholic fold recognize that?

confused

Oh well...

Happy fasting,
-uc

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What, again? Rome should read its own history - and remember how many times they forbade the Greek-Catholics in Hungary to use Hungarian in the Liturgy.
Incognitus

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Well, yes but what will the Russian Church give in exchange? Is it another free concession from John Paul II?

I mean, JPII gave his back to Greek Catholics in Romania by refusing to support the restitution of their temples, taken by the BOR in 1948. By visiting Patriarch Teoctist he virtualy saved the Patriarch's office, whose own faithful were asking for his resignation.

Greek Catholics who would have had an enormous expansion, are now a poor minority in Romania with very few places to worship facing the the hostility of the BOR and the authorities. The BRU also lost the prestige they had for having kept their faith besides the persecutions, when their leader gave their back to them.

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Originally posted by incognitus:
What, again? Rome should read its own history - and remember how many times they forbade the Greek-Catholics in Hungary to use Hungarian in the Liturgy.
Incognitus
Yes, and the Hungarians complied with Rome's prohibition by using Greek and not Slavonic. At least that is how my pastor, an ethnic Hungarian, relates it.

Diak,

what news agency is AGI? ISTM the "attempt" of imposing Roman Catholic interests an area which traditionally belongs to Moscow has already been succesful with the establishment of Latin dioceses in Russia.

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It's not nice to contradict, but it is sometimes necessary to set the record straight. So my apologies to Father Deacon, but his pastor is mistaken. Hungarian definitely continued in use for liturgical purposes among the Greek-Catholics in Hungary - the only Greek was, of all things, the Institution narrative, and mispronounced at that. The history is available for the reading in Cyril Korolevsky, Living Languages in Catholic Worship.
Incognitus

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... and the only sensitivities worth hurting are Greek Catholics.

Do Greek Catholics have ANY friends at the Vatican behind all those pious encyclicals that really don't mean cr*p.

And must the Pope/Rome not only canonize our saints, pick our bishops, but establish our patriarchates too? This seems to be a problem between the Orthodox and the Greek Catholics, not Rome (the "Catholic" Church) and the Orthodox. Is Rome looking for a Mommy-May-I permission slip like we do for ordaining married men?

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Originally posted by ukrainiancatholic:
Why do we need approval because in theory, aren't we a self-governing church?
Theory isn't worth the paper it is written on. We were NEVER a self-governing church, NOT one now, and NEVER will be one. Period. We are basically a subsidiary of a larger corporation with hand-picked administrators following the line.

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Diak Offline OP
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Dear Fr. Deacon, the news service is Agenzia Giornalistica Italia, which is in Rome and covers much Vatican news: http://www.agi.it/english and type "Kasper" in the search machine.

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Just for the record, here's the communique about that meeting, from the Vatican:



MOSCOW: CATHOLICS, ORTHODOX TO SET UP JOINT WORKING GROUP

VATICAN CITY, FEB 21, 2004 (VIS) * The following communique was released today by Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, who has been in Russia since February 16:

*On February 19, 2004 in Moscow, a meeting took place between the Chairman of the Department for External Church Relations of the Patriarchate of Moscow, Metropolitan of Smolensk and Kaliningrad, Kirill, and the President of the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity, Cardinal Walter Kasper. In the course of their conversations, the parties considered the matters at issue in relations between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church, especially in Russia and in Ukraine. In particular, Cardinal Kasper confirmed that the Holy See had received the written response of the Russian Orthodox Church on the possible establishment of a Greek-Catholic Patriarchate in Ukraine, as well as the responses of all the local Orthodox Churches on this question.

*Cardinal Kasper indicated that the unanimous position of all the Orthodox Churches is being given serious consideration by the authorities of the Catholic Church. The Catholic party assured the Orthodox party that it is the wish of the Holy See to maintain and further strengthen positive relations with the Orthodox Churches. Both sides agreed that for the solution of specific issues in relations between the Russian Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Churches a joint working group should be set up, composed of representatives of both Churches who will examine these questions and make proposals for their solution.

*Participating in the meeting were Archbishop Antonio Mennini, representative of the Holy See to the Russian Federation, Bishop Brian Farrell, Secretary of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, Reverend Father Jozef M. Maj, official of the same council, the Vice-Chairmen of the Department for External Church Relations of the Patriarchate of Moscow, Bishop Mark Egoryevsk and Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin, and Reverend Father Igor Vyzhanov, acting secretary for Inter--Christian Affairs.

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incognitus,

no need to apologize. I see no contradiction. Your post further clarified mine. Thank you.

Father Archpriest did not specify what part of the Liturgy was celebrated in Greek. His point to me was that the Hungarian Greek Catholics celebrated the Liturgy in a vernacular language when it was mandated to celebrate the Liturgy in a "liturgical" language, and rather than use Slavonic, the Hungarians made use of Greek.

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mad Nuts!
As a very loyal son of the Latin Church i would definitely say that since the Ukranian Church is a sui juris Church in communion with the See of Rome, that should totaly ignore this and establish their Patriarchate, send the name to Rome, to notify the Pope and that is that.
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I agree, they should just do it.

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As Fr.Taft said "to hell with Moscow" we should say "to hell with Rome". If we do not take action on our own we should seriously consider uniting with the Kyiv Patriarchate and hope for recognition in the future. What will Rome do if this happens? It has been done before and canonical patriarchates have been recognized. So it looks like Rome cares more about what Moscow thinks rather than what their brothers in communion do in the UGCC.

This is the begining of the end of the Union of Brest, FINALLY.

Yes, there will be a split: those loyal to Rome(ie Bassilians) and those loyal to an Independant Ukrainian Church.

FOR A UNITED UKRAINIAN PATRIARCHATE!!!!!!!!!!

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What a tragic situation! We should pray for all involved, most especially for those of the UGCC who will be wounded by this decision.

As for me, at the beginning of Great Lent, I place my hand over my mouth...

O Lord and master of my life
Take from me the spirit of sloth, despair, lust of power and idle talk. But give rather the spirit of chastity, humility, patience and love.
O Lord and King, grant me to see my own transgressions and not to judge my brother.

For you are blessed unto ages of ages, Amen.

Peace -

Gordo

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