www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West The Pope Get's Radical

You seem to be off. I would suggest becoming much better acquainted with the works of Pope Benedict and his spirit. He and his immediate predecessor are quite different, but that does not make one a saint at the expense of another.

Try to see the love and care he has for the people. Try to see how much he longs for people to discover who God really is. Look at how much he is reforming.

Not much of Rome was happy about JPII either, but they moved on or moved out. The same thing will happen here. The "old politicians" will either slowly fade or get back into the picture again.

Bless, Father!

It's great to see that you are "Steele" here!

Yes, everything you and PrJ ("Prester John?" ;)) say is right on the (Anglican) money.

I am also an "Anglican watcher" and have gone so far as to write an akathist to "King Charles the Martyr" that has been published in the U.S. for the Society of King Charles the Martyr. I also know former Episcopal clergy who have joined the Western Orthodox and have attended a conference of the Antiochian Orthodox Church to observe first-hand the Western Rite.

The TAC seems now to be very determined to become an "Anglican Uniate" in union with Rome and our local Catholic paper is now discussing this in articles, saying that Rome should welcome them and the like.

Even in union with Rome, such Anglicans should remain "Anglican" just as Eastern CAtholics should remain (or become) Eastern.

Or as one Anglican priest said by way of paraphrase, "Anglicans, not Angels!"

Alex

Bless, Prester John!

Perhaps, but I've also heard Orthodox bishops, in commenting on the Western Rite, affirm the same. Outside of that context, they might say otherwise. But it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Alex

Certainly, one point of tension with the Anglo-Catholics has always been as you said ("How is it they are not with Rome?").

But the "Anglican Catholic" variety that has appeared of late tends to disparage the liberal Anglo-Catholics and say they are an entire separate kettle of fish.

And it is these who appear most serious about union with Rome.

Alex

Yes, Alex, I think some liberal Catholic hierarchs are quite worried about such a quick influx of liturgically sane newcomers into the Roman Church!

Some would prefer to dialogue endlessly rather than to actually reconcile, because it doesn't serve their sinister purposes.

Alexis

Alexis,

I agree completely. As a recovered Catholic liberal I can attest to the disdain many liberals have towards the new converts, the new youth and the new priests. Ah, well, it's good to be in recovery!

BTW, did you all hear this morning's news? Another Episcopal bishop has swum the Tiber. Bp. Lipscomb of SW Florida announced yesterday and it went public today. For his graceful letter go here: http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/article/7786/




To Alex above, I am in complete agreement. And, it is to the Eastern Catholics that the Catholic Church owes this insight. Anglicanism is a variety of the Latin Rite. I used to think this was a problem. After looking into the Eastern rites however it is clear that the Eastern Rites are variously derived from one another as well. So this need not be a problem.

There is a big problem with TAC, however. It's hierarchy is all divorced and remarried--every one of them! And some of them are former Catholics--Rome has never allowed a former Catholic ordained elsewhere to return to the Church and be ordained. So, there are lots of problems, to be sure. Still, there is hope for something approaching an Anglican rites--which I believe would be attractive not only to former Anglicans but to many former Protestants.

This are truly interesting times. Everything is in flux. It is in times such as these that the Spirit can most fruitfully do his work.

God Bless All+,

Fr. J.

Bless, Father Steele!

I've followed through with a former Episcopal minister who became Western Orthodox (together with his parish) and these are some observations in his case (and possibly others).

They appear to want to become more "high liturgy" as they go along. In the Orthodox case, they are fascinated with the ancient Sarum Use and the Celtic rite and want to bring in as much of these as possible. If they are of the Anglo-Catholic tradition, they want to bring in Eucharistic Adoration, Stations of the Cross et alia. My friend told me that as long as he explained to his Eastern Orthodox bishop what the meaning of this or that tradition is, he had no problems practicing it at the parish level.

There are of course efforts to "Easternize" them here and there (i.e. the inclusion of the Byzantine prayer before Communion in the Western Orthodox liturgies).

In the case of some Anglican Catholics, as they call themselves, and who use the 1910 Breviary of St Pius X, the only visible difference, to me at least, is the inclusion of Bl. King Charles the Martyr and some other Anglican servants of God for commemoration, the Consecration of Samuel Seabury and the like.

Truly interesting all around, as you said.

PAX

Alex

"Try to see the love and care he has for the people. Try to see how much he longs for people to discover who God really is. Look at how much he is reforming."

This is true. A good way to see this is to look at his first encyclical and Sacramentum Caritatis and to consider how they relate to the temper of his pontificate.

Terry

I'll take your word for it Robert.

I was especially attached to JPII ... I admit I have not followed Benedict much.

I will take your word.

-ray