www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Top 15 ways to know you're a descendant of White emigre Russians

Top 15 ways to know you're a descendant of White emigre Russians...

1) You have a portrait of Tsar Nicholas somewhere in your house.

2) Your parents' Russian is rife with Serbian, Bulgarian, French, or Spanish words.

3) You like to sing "Zveite sokoli orlami" with your friends while drinking in an Irish bar.

4) You were taught Russian dances as a child, and had to perform them with your mom at every function.

5) You'll fly from California to New York in order to attend someone's graduation party.

6) The parish you attend is located one hour away in a bad neighborhood because your grandparents can't stand the priest in the nicer parish that's just ten minutes away.

7) You have World War II veterans in your family who fought on the "other side".

8) You were called a "commie" by kids in school, despite your repeated efforts to enlighten them.

9) You wonder why second generation Ukrainians, Georgians, and Balts get offended if you call them "Russian".

10) You were forbidden to wear red T-shirts and have anything that could resemble a red flag.

11) You know which people in politics and business are freemasons.

12) You've gotten into at least one heated debate with Ukrainians over the proper spelling of Kiev.

13) You've said "...and let's also not forget that at least 20 million Russians died during World War II" during Social Studies class.

14) You've said "...but neither Trotsky nor Stalin were Russian, and Lenin was only a quarter!" and were quickly told to shut up during Social Studies class.

15) At least once, you've had to say "Thanks, but we don't do sader - that's Russian Orthodox JEWS you're talking about..."

Alexandr

You've written numbers 12, 13, and 14 here on the forum!!!

The rest, I don't get, especially number 3. I don't even know what a White emigre Russian is.

We're the ones who fought the commies.

AHHHHHHH!

I still don't get #3. We sing Irish songs in our Irish Pub chains. (No authentic ones here. But the lamb was awesome!)

16) You detest communists as much as you detest Ukrainian nationalists.

17) You believe the earliest known scriptures were written in Russian.

Unfortunately, this is true.
Do you really this this is appropriate, even in jest, the day before a panakhyda is being celebrated in the MP cathedral in Moscow for the Ukrainian victims of the man-made famine?


I think you have gone too far.

OK, I'm sorry if it offended you. It was intended jokingly.

When may we expect a service for the repose of the victims of the man-made famine in Ireland to be held in Westminster Abbey?

Fr. Serge

We may be waiting awhile on that one.

when we see a pig flying past my window ?

But you know, if we got the word out that the starving Irish were homosexuals oppressed by intolerant Christians, that service would be held within the month.

You know your a Russian if Family Gatherings resemble C-Span as if sfilend as a Spy movie, with conspiracies combined wth critisism.


(Sorry, I know Russians.)

Well, since there seem to be people in the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church of Irish background, maybe they could start the ball rolling by including the commemoration of the man-made famine in Ireland on the same day and in the same panakhyda for the Ukrainian victims.

As a Ukrainian I would have no objection to that. To me the main issue would be that both nations included victims who suffered from a man-made famine and not a famine caused by nature.
It could be seen as an exumenical gesture because the Irish were Catholic and the Ukrainians who were victims of the famine were Orthodox.

You know First wave emigrees in Tennessee? Forgive me but I did not comprehend the rest of your post.

Alexandr

Bless Father,

Not soon. The sad thing is that others with no connection whatever to the horror of those times acknowledged them with love. In 1847, the Choctaw Indian Nation was only 15 years or so removed from its own genocidal horror, the governmentally-enforced cross-country migration that has become known as the Trail of Tears and which decimated the tribe's ranks. Hearing of the famine in a country about which they likely knew next to nothing, they collected donations of $170 - surely a fortune to them at the time - and forwarded it for the relief of the Irish people.

Memory eternal to all the victims of genocidal horror, the Trail of Tears, the Irish Famine, the Rape of Nanking, the Armenian Genocide, the Pontic Greek Genocide, the Assyrian Genocide, the Holdomor, the Holocaust, the Serb Genocide, the Cambodian Killing Fields, the Rwandan Genocide, the Croat Genocide, the Darfur Conflict, ... and it goes on, seemingly interminably.

Many years,

Neil

I thought the Choctaws were in Mississippi. However, I do remember reading that the Cherokees were sent over the Trail of Tears by President Andrew Jackson. But I would certainly agree it was a horrible event that should never have happened. Today there are two Cherokee groups. One is in North Carolina and one in, I think, Oklahoma. I have visited the North Carolina group since they are nearby.

Charles,

The surviving Choctaw populations are principally in Mississippi, Oklahoma, and Texas. Several tens of thousands were forcibly relocated from Mississippi to Indian Territory in the first of the five such (the others were, IIRC, the Cherokees, the Seminoles, the Creeks, and the Chickasaws). All of those relocations are referred to by the respective nations as the Trail of Tears.

(The Choctaws were also the original "Code Talkers" - a role that became famous with the Navahos in WWII - but which the Choctaws originated and undertook in WWI)

Many years,

Neil

Interesting. The local Cherokees tend to label the actual "Trail of Tears" as referring to their ancestors. I knew many of the Creeks were removed even earlier than the Jacksonian event. The eastern Cherokees say they are the descendents of people who hid out in the mountains to escape removal. These days, they seem to be thriving and doing well economically.

I have known descendants of Emigres (a friend Michael Dain comes to mind)and I have ordered a White Russian in a bar (this is the same person who at the age of nine was astonished that a Presbyterian was not only ginger ale and club soda, but a member of a Protestant tradition).
as one who is part Native, I rejoice that the Cherokees are thriving in North Carolina. I only wish my Shinnecock kin were doing as well in Southampton, Long Island (what an irony).
Much Love,
Jonn

It's quite common for native East Tennesseeans to have a Cherokee ancestor or two. My grandfather had the dark eyes, cheekbones, etc. that he supposedly inherited from his Cherokee mother. I don't know how well the western Cherokees are doing, but you are correct that it's good to see the Eastern Band doing well. They deserve it.

and most especially in the southern part of that Grand Division of the Volunteer State (good to know that there are other people like me in Eastern Catholicism)Outside of Chattanooga, people with Native ancestry are the majority in some counties. here's a story (how Southern, I am gonna tell y'all a story). when I was in Marching Band at UT Chattanooga, Citadel put on the halftime show at my Alma Mater. there were really trying to be progressive by having a few of their cadets in costume representing famous Tennesseans. there was the first Black Tennessean this, the first woman Tennessean that (a cadet in drag, how intriguing), and then out came another famous Tennessean ANDY JACKSON. a hush befell the stands before most of the audience were on their feet screaming, tossing ice, and so on and so forth. security was mobilized to restore order as "Jackson" was running dodging ice, and contraband cans. I was on my feet waving my trumpet like a tomahawk repeatedly shouting "murderer". guess the chastened Cadets headed back to that venerable and beautiful city of Charleston having learned themselves a lesson in history.
Much Love,
Jonn

Charles,

What you say is right, even here in west Georgia, about a large percentage of whites being part Native American (mostly Creek down here). I would say that...and this is just a guess...probably upwards of a quarter or a third of whites down here or at least PART Indian, though people my age rarely if ever are more than 1/8.

As far as we know, in my family we're not part Indian, but both of my mother's parents' families have lived in West Georgia/East Alabama for well over a hundred and fifty years. My grandmother has deep-set dark brown eyes, high cheek bones, a long "Indian" nose. My grandfather has fairly dark skin, and each of them speak of a grandmother with "jet black, coarse hair, deep eyes, dark complexion and a very Indian look to her." Who knows?

They're also part Irish, and as we've learned on this Forum, it could just be that!! Those "black Irish!"

Alexis

Dear Aleksandr,

Our UGCC Met. Andrew Sheptytsky assisted White Russians as they fled the Bolsheviks. As did my grandparents. They always told me that the aristocratic Russians "are an entirely different pair of galoshes!"

And through my grandmother, I am a direct descendant of Tsar St Nicholas Romanov.

Alex

Dear Miller,

The problem with all this reconciliation is that it ultimately leads to mutual forgiveness, love and respect.

I don't believe that either the Ukrainians or the Irish are just ready yet to go down that road.

And especially not when pointing angry fingers and feeling martyred is just so much more relevant!

Alex

I thought you said on another forum you were related to St. Volodymyr.
Are you saying you are related to both?

You're a direct descendant of Nicholas II? That seems impossible, since all of his children were slain with him and the tsaritsa in the Ipatiev House. Unless Anastasia survived and she's your grandmother!

Alexis

"American Indian" "Indian" are not the terms to be used. It is Native, Native American, or Aboriginal (in Canada). I can give you phone numbers to a few Aboriginals I grew up with. Call them and say, "you're an Indian/American Indian, right?" Not being rude to anyone, just doing my part to erase a term that is improper. Other groups/ethincities have had wrong labels changed through public awareness and so forth.

Native American is a politically correct term, when their ancestors actually came from somewhere else - just like all our ancestors did. But I will agree that "Indian" is a misnomer, since they certainly have nothing to do with India. I think that mistake came from the early Spanish explorers who thought they had reached India, or so I have heard.

Another interpretation is In Dios which means that the Spanish thought that the Natives were much more simple and pure than they were and therefore thought them to be of God. Like they were closer to the purity of the Garden of Eden then the Spanish were.

Alex writes:



Heavens, I had no idea that the Ukrainians and the Irish are angry with each other. And from my vantage point in Dublin, it's probable that I would know if that were happening.

Fr. Serge

Orthodox Pyrohy,

You're definitely right above the term "Indian," which I've always acknowledged is a misnomer, but sometimes I just get tired of saying/typing "Native American" since "Indian" is so much shorter, and everybody knows I'm not talking about people from the Subcontinent!

Maybe if I abbreviate Native American with an "N.A." from now on, that'll work best!

Alexis

Me neither? Speaking as a Ukrainian-Canadian, I don't know too many Irish, but I like the Irish-Aermicans I have met on this forum. Especially the quick wit.

How about keeping 'Indian' for those from India, and 'Injun' for those from your neck of the woods? =)

yeah, if Injun did not have a negative connotation, like calling Black people "coloreds". I guess it could work.
Much Love,
Jonn

One could use the term "Amerindian" - or to be utterly correct, one could use the correct tribal identification (Sioux, Apache, Nez Perce - you name it).

Fr. Serge

"Sioux" isn't appropriate according to the Dakota, Lakota and Nakota.

I am no expert on the designations of the pre-Columbian social groups in what is now North America! But isn't "Lakota" the name of Morris West's mythical Pope Cyril?

Fr. Serge

In Canada our native people are referred to as "First Nations People"

This terminology is found in Canadian government documents, by the native people themselves, and in common day usage by many Canadians now.

Yes, there are many who persist in using other terms.

Kolya

I don't know a thing about Morris West or his mythical Pope Cyril; however, Sitting Bull, Red Cloud and Crazy Horse were all Lakota.

Kolya, in the US people use a variety of terms and I don't know of any consistency in usage; it's possible that government documents are standardized through a number of years, but terminology changes with society so I would guess that terms have changed throughout the life of the nation.