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go Steph!

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Originally Posted by Orthodox Pyrohy.
Originally Posted by Slavipodvizhnik
Actually, if you read the Chronicles of Nestor, the traditional homeland of all the Slavs is the eastern slopes of the Carpathians, so you may very well be right!

Alexandr

You know, the pro-Rusyn folks of this thread have just cracked a magnum of white-sparking whine after you wrote this thread.
However, to add to the case I presented at the beginning of this thread, remember much of the Eastern Slope of the Carpathians are in Ukraine smile

Yea, huh... crazy Ivano-Frankivsk was part of Ukraine in the past, but Transcarpathia was never part of Ukraine until after WWII...when the communists took it by force (Czechoslovak Agreement - June 1945). It wasn't part of Kievan Rus', it wasn't part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, it wasn't part of the Russian Empire, nor part of the Ukrainian People's Republic.

If Rusyns are so Ukrainian, why did they reject the Ukrainian national movements in the 19th and early 20th centuries (Duchnovich, Dobrianskyj, Pavlovich, Fencik, even Voloshyn until he was brain-washed)?

If Rusyns are so Ukrainian, why did Transcarpathia vote >75% in 1991 for self-rule away from Kiev? They have asked the president for this again this year as well. (http://uzhgorod.net.ua/news/1222)

If Rusyns are so Ukrainian, why did the Transcarpathian Oblast officially vote to recognize Rusyns? (http://uzhgorod.net.ua/news/22606)

Looking at the official governmental policies over the last 50+ years, when forced to be something other than what you really are by a fascist/socialist/communist government that can nuke you into the last millennium, terror famine you, kill you, or send you to the gulag for 30 yrs. hard-labor, I guess I would have probably become Ukrainian too.

Sorry to disappoint, but it is not a "magnum of white-sparking whine", but simple historical facts. Why do hard-line extreme nationalist Ukrainians feel threatened by the Rusyn question?

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Thanks, Rusyn31. I'm Rusyn. My father and mother were both Rusyn. My grandparents on both sides were Rusyn. I have traced my father's side of the family back to the late 1700's and we were all Greek-Catholic in a Rusyn village. It may have been part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire--in what is now Eastern Slovakia. Does that make me Hungarian? Slovak? Ukrainian? Nope, I'm a Rusyn. My grandparents were Rusyn living in Rusyn villages in what happened, at that time, to be part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Before that is was part of something else.
Bu they were still Rusyn.

Tim

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Originally Posted by Rusyn31
Originally Posted by Orthodox Pyrohy.
Originally Posted by Slavipodvizhnik
Actually, if you read the Chronicles of Nestor, the traditional homeland of all the Slavs is the eastern slopes of the Carpathians, so you may very well be right!

Alexandr

You know, the pro-Rusyn folks of this thread have just cracked a magnum of white-sparking whine after you wrote this thread.
However, to add to the case I presented at the beginning of this thread, remember much of the Eastern Slope of the Carpathians are in Ukraine smile

Yea, huh... crazy Ivano-Frankivsk was part of Ukraine in the past, but Transcarpathia was never part of Ukraine until after WWII...when the communists took it by force (Czechoslovak Agreement - June 1945). It wasn't part of Kievan Rus', it wasn't part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, it wasn't part of the Russian Empire, nor part of the Ukrainian People's Republic.

If Rusyns are so Ukrainian, why did they reject the Ukrainian national movements in the 19th and early 20th centuries (Duchnovich, Dobrianskyj, Pavlovich, Fencik, even Voloshyn until he was brain-washed)?

If Rusyns are so Ukrainian, why did Transcarpathia vote >75% in 1991 for self-rule away from Kiev? They have asked the president for this again this year as well. (http://uzhgorod.net.ua/news/1222)

If Rusyns are so Ukrainian, why did the Transcarpathian Oblast officially vote to recognize Rusyns? (http://uzhgorod.net.ua/news/22606)

Looking at the official governmental policies over the last 50+ years, when forced to be something other than what you really are by a fascist/socialist/communist government that can nuke you into the last millennium, terror famine you, kill you, or send you to the gulag for 30 yrs. hard-labor, I guess I would have probably become Ukrainian too.

Sorry to disappoint, but it is not a "magnum of white-sparking whine", but simple historical facts. Why do hard-line extreme nationalist Ukrainians feel threatened by the Rusyn question?

Finally a post with some spirit! Don't forget what happened to the Lemkos in Poland during that same time frame. And I don't know why nationalist Ukrainians feel threatened by the Rusyn question. Maybe because the whole Ukrainian model is centered around nationalism and not being Russian or a part of Russia (or a part of anyone else, to be their own country)?

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Originally Posted by Orthodox Pyrohy.
Originally Posted by Rusyn31
Originally Posted by Orthodox Pyrohy.
[quote=Slavipodvizhnik]Actually, if you read the Chronicles of Nestor, the traditional homeland of all the Slavs is the eastern slopes of the Carpathians, so you may very well be right!

Alexandr

You know, the pro-Rusyn folks of this thread have just cracked a magnum of white-sparking whine after you wrote this thread.
However, to add to the case I presented at the beginning of this thread, remember much of the Eastern Slope of the Carpathians are in Ukraine smile

Yea, huh... crazy Ivano-Frankivsk was part of Ukraine in the past, but Transcarpathia was never part of Ukraine until after WWII...when the communists took it by force (Czechoslovak Agreement - June 1945). It wasn't part of Kievan Rus', it wasn't part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, it wasn't part of the Russian Empire, nor part of the Ukrainian People's Republic.

If Rusyns are so Ukrainian, why did they reject the Ukrainian national movements in the 19th and early 20th centuries (Duchnovich, Dobrianskyj, Pavlovich, Fencik, even Voloshyn until he was brain-washed)?

If Rusyns are so Ukrainian, why did Transcarpathia vote >75% in 1991 for self-rule away from Kiev? They have asked the president for this again this year as well. (http://uzhgorod.net.ua/news/1222)

If Rusyns are so Ukrainian, why did the Transcarpathian Oblast officially vote to recognize Rusyns? (http://uzhgorod.net.ua/news/22606)

Looking at the official governmental policies over the last 50+ years, when forced to be something other than what you really are by a fascist/socialist/communist government that can nuke you into the last millennium, terror famine you, kill you, or send you to the gulag for 30 yrs. hard-labor, I guess I would have probably become Ukrainian too.

Sorry to disappoint, but it is not a "magnum of white-sparking whine", but simple historical facts. Why do hard-line extreme nationalist Ukrainians feel threatened by the Rusyn question?

Finally a post with some spirit! Don't forget what happened to the Lemkos in Poland during that same time frame. And I don't know why nationalist Ukrainians feel threatened by the Rusyn question. I'm a USA nationalist myself, as Mr. Colbert would say, "I am America and so can you."

Last edited by Orthodox Pyrohy.; 11/21/07 06:26 PM. Reason: temporary Ukrainiansim
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Well if you are going to introduce Lemkos into this discussion, I will post an interesting article from the latest issue of New Pathway which just arrived today.
For the enjoyment of all you Lemkos:
Quote
A Trip to Lemkivshchyna

By Orysia Sopinka Chwaluk

During the last couple of years, I would get an impulse to get information on Lemkivshchyna, the land where my parents were born. I would read about the Lemkos, who had their own culture and lifestyle. How I yearned to go there. �Mama� and �Tato� came from Czystohorb and Wyslok Welykyj. I found out that both villages still exist in a valley surrounded by the beautiful Lower Beskyd Mountains, a range of the Carpathians in present-day South East Poland.

The opportunity of a lifetime arose when the World Federation of Ukrainian Women�s Organizations decided to hold their congress in Kyiv, Ukraine, this year. I decided to kill two birds with one stone �attend the conference and visit my ancestral homeland.

I got excited thinking about how close Lviv was to Lemkivshchyna, my final destination. On a Saturday, Marian Rajtar picked me up at my cousin�s apartment in Lviv and drove me and fellow Canadian Ivan Terefenko, who contributes to Homin Ukrainy, to the Polish border at Krakivets. He knew Poland like the back of his hand. First, he drove us to the town of Hrushovychi where Ukrainians in Poland built a monument for all the dead soldiers of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) who died on Polish soil. All the military companies were engraved on the monument � Rena, Konyk-Bajda, Zalizniak and Berkut.

The next stop was Pykulychi not far from Peremyshl. We visited another majestic monument built for the Ukrainian Halycka Army whose soldiers were interned in a camp and a cemetery for fallen UPA soldiers at the Battle of Birchi.

The first thing I noticed as we drove into Peremyshl was a church with a beautiful shiny bell in a tower. Marian explained that there was a factory that produced bells in the city. We visited both the Greek Catholic Cathedral under the leadership of Metropolitan Ivan Martyniuk and the Polish Roman Catholic Cathedral, built with materials from a 15th century church built by Prince Volodar of Peremyshl. We had lunch in the garden which used to belong to Prince Osmomysl. His castle was replaced by a Polish one. It became evident to me that the Poles were not interested in preserving Ukrainian history and culture.

The ride to Sianok was spectacular. We drove through the beautiful Soliny Mountains, a range of the Lower Beskyds. Once in the town of Bekivtsi, Marian announced that we were driving by the Sian River, a sign of Lemkivshchyna. A wave of joy overtook me. I knew my dream had come true. Mr. Terefenko got off in Sianok and Marian gave me a quick tour of the Lemko church and cemetery in Wyslok Welykyj.

Sunday Mass in the Ukrainian Catholic Church in Komanchi reminded me of the ornate iconostas and aisle banners of St. Mary�s (Pokrowa) Church on Leeds Avenue in Toronto. We drove on to Wyslok Welykij passing Czystohorb. Now I could see in daylight that the church needed repair, then turned around and in front of me in the cemetery was a gravestone with a picture of a man whose last name was Sopinka. After making some enquiries with the villagers, Marian drove to Peter Sopinka in Wyslok who was recovering from a stroke. His sister who lived with him divulged very little information spoke only in Polish. She did say that that there were six siblings in her family. �Tato�s� family had thirteen children. Not feeling very welcomed, we drove to Komanchi to visit the Museum of Lemko Ethnography, founded by Daria Voivka who told us about the Wyszniewskij family who knew a lot about the town of Jawirnyk, from where came my maternal grandfather, Teodor Wakeriak. The Wyszniewskis welcomed us and listened to how many in Jawirnyk and Wyslok Welykyj helped UPA against the Poles in WWII. My grandfather�s brother was arrested for assisting the insurgents and was sent to Northern Poland during Akcija Visla. The original town of Jawirnyk was disassembled because of wartime UPA involvement. Paul Onyshkanych helped rebuild a chapel where the church once stood and across from the cemetery attended to by him. Hiking through the woods to find my dido�s homestead, we had to turn back halfway because it was getting dark. As a memento, Paul�s daughter Danusia made a CD of pictures of Jawirnyk and families dressed in their traditional costumes.

On Monday, Marian drove me to Czystohorb, �Mama�s� birthplace. Aunt Julie from Stryj had told me to look for a cross and then find the place where two streams meet. That part was easy but I could not find �Mama�s� barn further down the road. In the cemetery, we saw the foundation of the original church then walked through a field of tall grass and found a second cemetery with only a few gravestones.

The next stop on my tour was the town of Zyndranowa. There I met Theodor Goch, the founder of an open air museum of Lemko culture. Next year it will be celebrating its 40th anniversary. Children come from all over Poland to visit this museum which is a testimony about the fate of the Lemkos.

Then we drove on to Berest. The Lemko church in Berest has a new belfry and a shiny, new tin roof. Our journey continued through the Beskyds to the resort town of Krynytsia where thousands of tourists come every summer to drink mineral water from the natural sources. Marian and I drank a bottle of Zubr which is supposed to cure stomach ailments. I could taste the sulfur in it which did not appeal to me.

Our next stop was the highest point in all of Lemkivshchyna. It is called Jaworyna with an altitude of 1,114 metres. A gondola ride took us to the top of the mountain. The panorama was spectacular. We could see all of Lemkivshchyna looking in the direction of the Czech Republic. This was the highlight of the day.

On our way back to Repid, we drove into several small towns with beautiful Lemko churches. Bunary has the biggest wooden church in Lemkivshchyna. There are five different parts to it. The town of Charna has a wooden church that is painted black. The most beautiful church in all of Lemkivshchyna is in Kwiaton. It was built in the 18th century and a part of it resembles Boyko architecture. The last place I saw that day was a lake with a hillside church. The Polish had built a dam in the area which in turn created a lake that flooded the whole village of Klymkiw. The church in Klymliw was saved and rebuilt beside the lake.

Tuesday was my last day in Lemkivshchyna. The morning was devoted to the perusal of the most beautiful collection of icons and religious paintings from the 14th to the 19th centuries in the city of Sianok. These paintings and carvings had been restored to their original appearance, now housed in the former residence of Queen Bona, wife of Sigmund 1st of Poland. An archeological dig is taking place beside the museum with artifacts found from the time of Queen Bona.

My trip to Lemkivshchyna helped me reinforce my identity. I saw the place where my parents came from. I walked on the same paths that my parents walked when they were young. As I walked in their steps, I could picture their lives and I cherished my heritage and fulfilled my dreams.

PHOTOS

1 - Orysia Sopinka Chwaluk on Jaworyna, highest peak of the Lower Beskyd Mountains, overlooking Lemkivshchyna

2 - Ukrainian Insurgent Army Memorial to fallen soldiers in Hrushovychi. Ivan Terefenko at right
You can see the pictures at:
http://www.infoukes.com/newpathway/45-2007_Page-8-1.html

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Here's a question for everyone: How exactly is the word "Rusyn" or "Rusin" pronounced? I've never heard it spoken. Is it like RUSS-in, ROOSS-in, ROO-seen, etc?

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The correct pronounciation of Rusyn is;
UKRAINIAN

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Oh, forgive me, but I am choking! LOL!!!!! You know, people are going to start believing that you're being serious! wink

Alexandr

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Originally Posted by Orthodox Pyrohy.
The correct pronounciation of Rusyn is;
UKRAINIAN

laugh

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For the sake of everyone, let me state this;
I, Orthodox Pyrohy am totally teasing.
-thought we needed some humor.
I am a card-carrying Rusyn-AmericanUkrainian American. So it's not like I'm some "outsider" starting trouble or trying to rouse folks. I'm merely having fun and so far hopefully no one has taken me seriously.
That being said, let us continue to have a fun little thread.

Last edited by Orthodox Pyrohy.; 11/22/07 05:09 AM.
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cool that's cool, works for me

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Sadly, I am serious. blush

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Originally Posted by Byzantophile
Here's a question for everyone: How exactly is the word "Rusyn" or "Rusin" pronounced? I've never heard it spoken. Is it like RUSS-in, ROOSS-in, ROO-seen, etc?
]

1st syllable roos second syllable en

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Many thanks Orthodox Pyrohy!

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