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Originally Posted by monksilouan
Anyone have any thoughts on John Michael Talbot's music for liturgy?
Silouan, musically challenged old monk

Is he still around? I hadn't heard anything of him in years. I seem to remember he did kind of a folk-type music.

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I just have this vision of Pope Benedict standing at that gates of the Vatican with his finger pointing the way out, and a train of denim clad nuns with guitars slung on their backs slowly filing out into the sunset.

Alexandr

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Originally Posted by Slavipodvizhnik
I just have this vision of Pope Benedict standing at that gates of the Vatican with his finger pointing the way out, and a train of denim clad nuns with guitars slung on their backs slowly filing out into the sunset.

Alexandr

Works for me! wink

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Are they singing Kumbaya? biggrin

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Originally Posted by Dr. Eric
Are they singing Kumbaya? biggrin

What was the other one about Michael rowing that %*$& boat ashore? I never figured out what that ever had to do with anything even remotely religious.

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Originally Posted by byzanTN
Originally Posted by Dr. Eric
Are they singing Kumbaya? biggrin

What was the other one about Michael rowing that %*$& boat ashore? I never figured out what that ever had to do with anything even remotely religious.

This thread got me thinking of my years at a Roman Catholic grade school. I specifically remember masses where I heard the songs "Look beyond the bread you eat", " On eagles wings", and even the Cat Stevens song "Morning has broken" with guitars. sick

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I stand by 'on eagles wings.' it is a partial psalm. the rcc uses many partial psalm in the mass. ever hear of the responsorial psalm. i put this up 2 defend anyone that says, well on eagles wings is just a partial psalm so that doesnt add to its credibility.
even the eastern churches abbv. psalams in places too, so i am not pointing fingers. even the prayers at the foot of the altar in the 1962 missal are abbv. psalms, so we can point to that small tradition as well. So, my point is, on eagles wings is not a bad song.

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The words to on eagles wings are fine, and I have never had any objection to them. It's the music that's totally cheesy and lacking in any kind of sacred character - something Pope Benedict keeps stating as necessary for church music. It's by Michael Joncas who missed his time and calling by not composing silent music scores. He writes some of the most horrid music I have ever heard. And yes, he has written far, far worse than on eagles wings. He wrote a setting of the Magnificat that a crazed local choir director pulled out for a diocesan function. It would have been appropriate stylistically for camel herding, since it had a "Lawrence of Arabia" tone.

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Originally Posted by Etnick
This thread got me thinking of my years at a Roman Catholic grade school. I specifically remember masses where I heard the songs "Look beyond the bread you eat", " On eagles wings", and even the Cat Stevens song "Morning has broken" with guitars. sick

----

I have similar memories.

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Originally Posted by byzanTN
Originally Posted by Dr. Eric
Are they singing Kumbaya? biggrin

What was the other one about Michael rowing that %*$& boat ashore? I never figured out what that ever had to do with anything even remotely religious.

Ignorance breeds contempt...


"Michael, Row the Boat Ashore" is a Negro spiritual. Originally published after the Civil War, it was no doubt sung by slaves of the antebellum era. Spirituals were a form of religious expression. The lyrics speak of crossing the Jordan River, which in these spirituals is a metaphor of death. Reaching the shore is in essence attaining the Promised Land, ie, heaven. Given the subhuman experience of slaves, spirituals adapted many OT themes, especially those related to the children of Israel's Eygptian bondage and Exodus. Songs of this genre offered hope in a time of hopelessness.



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I love Negro spirituals! But everything has a time and a place, and things that work for some don't work for others.

I've attended a black church where everyone sang with gusto these types of songs. It was a moving, authentic experience.

But when 21st century (mostly non-black) Catholics try to sing 19th century Negro spirituals, the result is nothing less than pathetic and disastrous. I hate to use such strident words, but I really can't phrase it in any other way. Black spirituals from *black people* in an appropriate venue and situation can be inspiring and, as I said, feels authentic. In the wrong setting (i.e. the Catholic Mass), it seems self-consciously vain, terribly artificial and painfully executed. They even steal the dignity of those songs by those of us who have to suffer to hear them from such an artificual crowd, which is something of an affront to those songs' authors and the ones who sing them convincingly.

Alexis

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I attend a workshop of his at the dreaded LA Conference and was quite inspired by the singing and philosophy of his music.
Stephanos I
So much so that I would like to initiate the congregation into sining it.

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Originally Posted by Logos - Alexis
I love Negro spirituals! But everything has a time and a place, and things that work for some don't work for others.

I've attended a black church where everyone sang with gusto these types of songs. It was a moving, authentic experience.

But when 21st century (mostly non-black) Catholics try to sing 19th century Negro spirituals, the result is nothing less than pathetic and disastrous. I hate to use such strident words, but I really can't phrase it in any other way. Black spirituals from *black people* in an appropriate venue and situation can be inspiring and, as I said, feels authentic. In the wrong setting (i.e. the Catholic Mass), it seems self-consciously vain, terribly artificial and painfully executed. They even steal the dignity of those songs by those of us who have to suffer to hear them from such an artificual crowd, which is something of an affront to those songs' authors and the ones who sing them convincingly.

Alexis

Good points.

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Well said, Logos-Alexis. I think your language very restrained.
It is twelve years since I left the Roman rite and I almost never
attend a Roman church so I have little idea what's being done
today, but back then things just got worse and worse musically.
Some of the songs (let me not call them hymns)were not only
hard to hear but theologically dubious.To me, it was a temptation
against charity, along with a lot of other stuff. Now, some might accuse me of being an aesthetic snob (and they'd probably
be right)but music in church is not just trimming, it is part of
worshipping, and what are we saying to God, ourselves and the
world in general when we use unworthy music?

As for "On Eagles' Wings", circumstances being what they are,
I will probably be buried from a Latin church. I have instructed
my relatives that if that hideous thing gets sung at my funeral I will come back and haunt them and interfere with their TV
reception when Mets games are on.

Edmac

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Oddly enough, one is not the owner of one's own corpse. However, I might suggest this procedure:

1. Whilst you are still alive, make a written agreement between yourself and the medical school of your choice, leaving your body to medical science with specific instructions that whatever can be used for the health needs of another should be used to that end (there is a constant need for corneas, liver transplants, and so on);

2. Have that instrument and agreement co-signed by whoever your principal heir might be (if need be, a hint that recalcitrance could result in your leaving your corpse and all of your estate to a home for dead cats often results in enthusiastic cooperation in your dedication to medical science); and

3. arrange a funeral service and so on in the Church of your choice; pay for it in advance (I beg your pardon; that must read "make the customary offering in advance, and get a written attestation from the Pastor to that effect), and give photocopies of that instrument to all your potential heirs. They are unlikely to want to pay some other Church a second time.


If you would like some real amusement, get together with your lawyer and make one of those video-recorded wills, in which you may say whatever you like ( barring obscenities and vulgarisms) while you are dispensing your largesse - with a clause indicating that if your wishes for your mortal remains and your funeral are not followed to the letter, your worldly goods will go to some outlandish cause that you happen to approve of and that is legally capable of accepting such a legacy (if you want any suggestions, I'll be happy to oblige).

Since we must all die sooner or later, we might as well make the process at least somewhat enjoyable!

Fr. Serge

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