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#266064 12/03/07 04:16 PM
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Alice Offline OP
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Greek Cypriots look heavenward for rain

Devout Greek Cypriots converged on Orthodox churches yesterday to pray for rain to end a crippling drought that threatens to empty the Mediterranean island�s reservoirs by the end of the year.

�If we all pray with deep faith the Almighty shall heed us,� Cyprus Archbishop Chrysostomos II said in a circular sent out to all churches, quoting from the Gospel of St John. �There is nothing else we can do but pray; that�s all we have left,� said pensioner Pantelis Ioannou, 68, as he emerged from a chapel under cloudy skies in a Nicosia suburb. Dwindling rainfall has forced authorities to drill down to precious underground water deposits which have taken thousands of years to accumulate. On Friday reservoirs were on average 7.9 percent full, the main reservoir holding only 2.0 percent of its capacity. Without rain, that reservoir will run dry in less than a month, authorities say. (Reuters)

www.ekathimerini.com [ekathimerini.com]

Prayers to God to hear the cries and needs of His faithful in Cyprus.

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God is merciful and gives us what we need when we need it.
It sounds almost as if there is a modern Ilias running around in Greece. Perhaps this will bring a return to the true faith for the people and clergy. Perhaps they will return to the Calender of the Church and not of the Romans who lack the Holy Spirit and foolishly seek to attempt to change times and seasons.

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Alice Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Surgei
God is merciful and gives us what we need when we need it.
It sounds almost as if there is a modern Ilias running around in Greece. Perhaps this will bring a return to the true faith for the people and clergy. Perhaps they will return to the Calender of the Church and not of the Romans who lack the Holy Spirit and foolishly seek to attempt to change times and seasons.

Dear Surgei,

While I appreciated your first few sentences, your last remarks were uncharitable and uncalled for. You are new here, but please be aware that we do not speak like that here. It will not be tolerated by the Administrators.

The Roman Catholic Church is not lacking in the Holy Spirit! To say so, in my opinion, implies that one's heart is what may be lacking--in the love of Christ Jesus for all those first cousins in faith we are sadly estranged from and out of communion with.

Also, I fail to believe that in the difficult process of each and every one of us working out our personal salvation and theosis, that a calendar will really make much difference at the awesome judgement seat. I rather think that our Lord God will look at our hearts, our compassion, our humility, and our desire for peaceful coexistence (blessed are the peace makers). Somehow I don't remember Jesus caring so much for the letter of the law.

Let's not bring the spirit of the law, which is the love and humility of Christianity, down to the level of the Pharisees who knew nothing of the spirit.

In Christ,
Alice who is Greek and follows the New Calendar

P.S. Also, be aware that Cyprus, although ethnically Greek in the South, is a nation unto itself.


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Originally Posted by Alice
While I appreciated your first few sentences, your last remarks were uncharitable and uncalled for. You are new here, but please be aware that we do not speak like that here. It will not be tolerated by the Administrators.
All four of my roomates are RC. It is not out of a lack of charity that I say these things. The lacking of the Holy Spirit is the view of the Orthodox Church. See St John of Sanfransico's work on the Theotokos. In the section Zeal Not According to Knowledge he says this almost word for word.
Look at Pope Benedict XVI in his statement that the Orthodox are rightly called sister churches. He states that we are lacking. Is this uncheritable of him? No. He holds fast to the tradition handed down to him. He is honest with himself and others.
If honesty makes one uncheritable then Christ was the most uncheritable of all. Paul likewise. Peter also.
My heart longs for the reunification that is often discussed in this forum. Reunification cannot come through glossing over what divides.
A Ukrainian uniate and I just discussed several ideas that seperate east and west. (In fact he is my brother.) He challenged me to look deeply into the ideas of the western church and see if they are not just differing expressions of the same Lord. What I have found so far is this is not the case.
One cannot say with honesty that Ancestral sin and Origonal sin are expressions of the same truth. At their hearts are diffent gods. One of the God of mercy one in essence made manifest by Jesus Christ the prophets and apostles. The other the god of wrath inherited from the pharasaic tradition and found common among the unenlightend peoples of the world. the latter is one that leads not to unity with God and man but disharmany within self, that is insanity, and the world. Is this not the view held by Luther, Calvin and the others who give us the over abundance of communities claiming to be the church. Is this not the view of those who deny the sacraments.
This is but one point.
If it is charity you seek then seek Truth and worship him rightly "neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem" (Jn 4:21 kjv) "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him" (Jn 4:23). For he is the auther and perfector of such.

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Originally Posted by Alice
Originally Posted by Surgei
God is merciful and gives us what we need when we need it.
It sounds almost as if there is a modern Ilias running around in Greece. Perhaps this will bring a return to the true faith for the people and clergy. Perhaps they will return to the Calender of the Church and not of the Romans who lack the Holy Spirit and foolishly seek to attempt to change times and seasons.

Dear Surgei,

While I appreciated your first few sentences, your last remarks were uncharitable and uncalled for. You are new here, but please be aware that we do not speak like that here. It will not be tolerated by the Administrators.

In Christ,
Alice who is Greek and follows the New Calendar

P.S. Also, be aware that Cyprus, although ethnically Greek in the South, is a nation unto itself.
I happen to be in agreement with Alice here. The last remark if repeated will not be tolerated on this forum. If the poster has any question, he should reread the user agreement which he has agreed to upon registering for membership on this forum.

In IC XC,
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Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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Originally Posted by Father Anthony
I happen to be in agreement with Alice here. The last remark if repeated will not be tolerated on this forum. If the poster has any question, he should reread the user agreement which he has agreed to upon registering for membership on this forum.

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Father,
What remark was that? The one of St John the Wonderworker or the one of the Ecumenical council lead by the Spirit to establish one calendar for all of Christendom.
You are a Priestmonk. Judge for yourself. Is their one God or two? Is their One church or are their many?
"These people worship me with their lips but their hearts are far from me." Is this saying offensive? Or is it truth spoken in love?

Although I hate much of what he had to say Luther was perhaps right "If you have not offended someone, you have not presented the gospel."
In the end the most grievous offence to those who are perrishing is to do and say nothing.

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I hope Cyprus gets rain.

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In England, St. Swithun (also spelled Swithin) is the saint invoked for rain.

Who is his Eastern counterpart?

St. Swithun pray for Cyprus!

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Originally Posted by OCA website
Generally it is not the custom in the Orthodox Church to have patron saints of various vocations and trades, even though there are a few saints designated as such. To my knowledge, the Orthodox Church does not look to any particular saint as the patron of firefighters and emergency medical response personnel.

Probably the Roman Catholic Church, which does cherish this custom, has such a patron.

Sorry I could not be of more assistance.
I think the same would apply to the idea of a patron for rain.
However we do have the icon "the Lifegiving Font."
We have the prayer in the Liturgy "For seasonable weather and the abundance of the fruits of the vine let us pray to the Lord." It is sometimes translated as "favorable" weather. Rain would be the preferance here I spose.

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Originally Posted by Surgei
Although I hate much of what he had to say Luther was perhaps right "If you have not offended someone, you have not presented the gospel."
Proverbs 16:23-24: The heart of the wise makes his speech judicious and adds persuasiveness to his lips. Gracious words are like a honeycomb, sweetness to the soul and health to the body.

I think you misunderstand Luther, and do a great disrespect to him. He was not saying that one need to be offensive in their presentation of the Gospel. He was saying that the Gospel is offensive to those who reject the Truth of Jesus Christ. It is not your beliefs that cause problem on this Forum. It is your lack of charity in the way you present them. You come across as a fresh convert to an Old Calendarist Orthodox group who seeks to find support for his faith by condemning others. It would be far better for you to present the sweetness of the Truth of Jesus Christ as understood by your Orthodox Church. So far, your witness of Jesus Christ suggests that He is offensive and has come to earth only to condemn, and not to save. You do a disservice to Orthodoxy when you present such a witness to the world.

Please consider this post a formal warning. Speak with charity at all times or you will loose your privilege to speak on this Forum. I will have you know that most of the complaints we have received this afternoon have been from Orthodox participants, and most are complaining that your presentation of Orthodoxy is offensive to Orthodoxy!

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Originally Posted by Administrator
Proverbs 16:23-24: The heart of the wise makes his speech judicious and adds persuasiveness to his lips. Gracious words are like a honeycomb, sweetness to the soul and health to the body.
You neglect that the very next couplet read:
Sometimes there is a way that seam to be right, but in the end it is the way to death.

Originally Posted by Administrator
I think you misunderstand Luther, and do a great disrespect to him. He was not saying that one need to be offensive in their presentation of the Gospel. He was saying that the Gospel is offensive to those who reject the Truth of Jesus Christ.
I doubt I misunderstand him. Other than JPII he is the non-Orthodox I have read the most.
Originally Posted by Administrator
It is not your beliefs that cause problem on this Forum. It is your lack of charity in the way you present them.
My roomate just reminded me of an article in one of the RC papers to which he subscribes. It's really more of an add and if I can find it online I'll post it. The sum of it is even Christ the prince of Peace, indead Peace himself, did not sacrifice truth for pelasing words.
Originally Posted by Administrator
You come across as a fresh convert to an Old Calendarist Orthodox group who seeks to find support for his faith by condemning others.
In fact the only form of Christianity I know is Orthodoxy and True Calenderist. However I have studied under those of other traditions who are considered great in their traditions. Men such as: Mike Whitmer of Grand Rapids Theological Seminary, a Baptist college; John Hardon S.J., the spiritual father of Mother Thereasa; John Leonard, who was the advisor to the Melkite Patriarch at the Vatican II; Steven Potter, the Ottowa tribe cleric. All of these men refuse to pull punches. The truth is the truth. Potter once related the following poem:
The Truth hurts.
The Truth is like a double edged sword.
The Truth has no handle only points.
The Truth hurts.
The Truth hurts the one giving it.
The Truth hurts the one receiving it.
The Truth hurts.
But we must all grasp it.
For in the end.
The Truth heals.
Originally Posted by Administrator
It would be far better for you to present the sweetness of the Truth of Jesus Christ as understood by your Orthodox Church. So far, your witness of Jesus Christ suggests that He is offensive and has come to earth only to condemn, and not to save. You do a disservice to Orthodoxy when you present such a witness to the world.
60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?" 61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[e] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." 66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. 67"You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve. 68Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God." 70Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" 71(He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
Originally Posted by Administrator
Please consider this post a formal warning. Speak with charity at all times or you will loose your privilege to speak on this Forum.
Originally Posted by John Hardon S.J.
It is important for people to tell the truth because truth is the foundation of love. We cannot love what we do not know... Lying means deliberately speaking contrary to what is on a persons mind. (Basic Catholic Catechism p. 70, this course was first written for the nuns of Calcutta)

Originally Posted by Administrator
I will have you know that most of the complaints we have received this afternoon have been from Orthodox participants, and most are complaining that your presentation of Orthodoxy is offensive to Orthodoxy!
My RC roomate discouraged me from sending a person to receive charity from one of the local RC churches. His reason? Although they are listed on the website of the local diascease, "they aren't Catholic."
I take your warning seriously. As seriously as I took the "warning" of those who burned me because my grandfather was a jew. But I also remember now what we sing at the Liturgy:
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." [/i]
Would you I avoid these hard things? Would you we hold hands and sing cumbya? Forgive me if unlike the Basilica of St Adalberts in Grand Rapids, Michigan I refuse to pray with demons.
Originally Posted by phayul.com
Those who came to hear harmonious chants and prayers of Buddhist monks at the Basilica of St. Adalbert...
The Catholic parish on Grand Rapids' West Side allowed seven Tibetan Buddhist monks into the church Tuesday evening, where about 35 people gathered to see them...
"Buddhism is a very tolerant religion," Wangdi said this morning. "The Dalai Lama has extreme respect for other religions. He and the pope are good friends."
Forgive me if I hold fast to the trditions handed to me. Forgive me for being Orthodox. Forgive me if I ask you to think. That is if straight talk offends your "itching ears."

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[Linked Image]

With that previous post, permanently ends the brief career here on the Byzantine Forum of someone who could not follow the rules, especially the one regarding charitable posting.

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Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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Surgei,

I must strongly protest the manner in which you are portraying the Orthodox faith. Orthodoxy is not delivered on the point of a sword, nor is it bettered by defaming others. You sir, have much to learn about the spirit and depth of Orthodoxy. My advice is to put your books away, stay off the internet and pray. It might do you some good.

For those out there who have been offended by this person's comments, please rest assured that his views do NOT reflect the views of the Orthodox Church.

Alexandr, Old Calendarist Orthodox (ROCOR)

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Quote
I doubt I misunderstand him. Other than JPII he is the non-Orthodox I have read the most.

I would hope that he tries reading the works of the present pope as well. John Paul II was very saintly, but this pope is an amazing scholar!

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Ok, now that we have had to clarify the misinformation of an ex-member, I would like to see this thread get back on topic.

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Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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