www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Eastern Rite Baptists?

I've seen the Eastern rite Lutherans of Ukraine, but here's a new one to me: Baptists in Georgia (and I don't mean the state!) with Orthodox trappings:

http://www.ebcgeorgia.org/Neue_Dateien/start.html

And on a Romanian Baptist forum:
http://aurelmateescu.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/un-altfel-de-baptisti-evanghelici/

(One person on that forum called it Baptist "Uniatism"!)

Very unusual!

Dave

Unusual, indeed!

The mem in monk's robes don't look much like Baptist pastors that I have met.

And most American Baptsts would not have much to do with Icons.

"Uniate" indicates an ecclesial tie to Rome. The concept of Baptists tied to Rome is truly peculiar.

Years ago when I first learned of the Indian Christians in with the Anglican communion I thought "I have now seen it all."

A couple years back when I found out about the Ukrainian Lutherans that wear - at times - epitrachelion I thought "I have now seen it all."

Last week I came across a photograph of the "Chief Rabbi of a Hebrew Catholic synogogue" in Brazil. I thought "I have now seen it all."

Now today, these guys?

I know "I have now seen it all."

Well, at least until tomorrow.

Well, I completely take back everything I said about Protestantism NOT making inroads in Byzantium! Truly here we have wolves in sheep's (and shepherd's) clothing!!!

Gordo

Do you have the url where we can see this "Chief Rabbi of a Hebrew Catholic synogogue?"

There is a man who claims to be an Native American Orthodox/Catholic Bishop and who uses a curtain rod as his shepherd's staff. I forgot his url, but he is somewhere in America leading people astray.

It is truly sad.

Well, what will hey think of next...


"Baptists will eclaim the traditions the Catholcis stole form us. So join us next sunday at the Baptist Eucharist Adoration, and after servie, a Proper Baptist Rosary session."

...Alexander Swift Eagle Justice...

Check out Swift Eagle Justice's website. I am not sure how he decides which set of vestments he will wear on which days.
http://www.education-1.net/justicelines.htm


as to Rabbi Richard Gamboa, Chief Rabbi of Bnei Tzion:Catholics of Hebrew Tradition see
http://aronbengilad.blogspot.com/

How bogus can one get?
Stephanos I

VERY BOGUS ?

TRULY BOGUS ?

OMNI BOGUS ?

Deluded is the word I would use...

The "United Church of Canada" sprang from the Presbyterians, and made a major effort to proselytize Greek-Catholics in the early years of the 20th century - to the point of permitting some of their "ministers" to appear to serve the Divine Liturgy, use icons, "holy water", incense, and so on. It then became tragicomic when some normal Presbyterians discovered that their money was being used to support these pseudo-popish goings-on and wrote to the Toronto Globe and Mail in protest.

The Secretary of the Presbyterian Mission Board responded in the same newspaper, reassuring the Presbyterian faithful that these "ministers" did not really consecrate the bread and the wine, they only pretended to, that these were only "bogus priests" (this from the man who was paying their salaries!), and so forth. Since this correspondence was published in English, the Greek-Catholics could not read it. Fortunately, Metropolitan Andrew (Sheptytsky) could indeed read English, and promptly published a Ukrainian translation, along with the suggestion that anyone whose employer, in the public press, called him a "bogus" anything would resign forthwith if he had a shred of honesty.

Nothing daunted, the Presbyterians transformed their "mission" into the Independent Greek Church, which survived until around 1960, although most of its congregations eventually joined the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada. Right to the present day, a very substantial number of Ukrainian-Canadians belong to the United Church of Canada as a result of all this chicanery.

Fr. Serge

[Mr Spockian eyebrow raise] Fascinating.

I've seen the Ukrainian Lutheran site before (Google and ye shall find). I understand (from here?) they're descended from disgruntled Ukrainian Catholics in the 1930s. (I don't know what disgruntled them.) Actually what they're doing - use of Orthodox trappings apparently at the discretion of the pastor and congregation; their practice is not uniform - fits Lutheranism. Martin Luther had no problem with retaining many Catholic symbols and practices as Lutheran churches in Western Europe show. They're just doing the same in the East. Like I said they're mixed in practice - some pastors look like Orthodox priests, like these pictures from Georgia, others just like Western Lutheran pastors - alb'n'stole or black Geneva gown and white collar bands maybe with a stole. I've not seen one of their churches with an iconostasis, only some using some icons and three-bar crosses.

The Georgian Baptists (are they Baptists in the English and American sense or in the Russian and Ukrainian sense of a homegrown imitation of the German Mennonites?) seem an example of seeing that style of clerical dress and religious art as simply Christian, understandable in an Orthodox country. Perhaps na�ve not malicious. I don't know if they mean to lie (they could be telling an untruth by dressing that way but not be guilty of lying).

But like many here I tend to agree with Otto the bus-driver from 'The Simpsons': 'This is blatant false advertising!'

BTW I've seen pictures of black American Protestant churches and some white ones (some fringe Pentecostal ones) with bishops and other ministers kitted out like Roman and/or Anglican ones, both liturgically (mitres, copes) and in choir dress (cassocks, birettas, rochets etc.). More a fashion statement than a theological one - most of these places aren't liturgical or apostolic episcopal - but again a back-handed acknowledgement that Catholic style is the historic Western norm.

Father Serge,

Bless!

There is a Congregational Church in the city where my Greek Catholic parish is located, which started an "Assyrian Mission" in the 1920's, drawing many from the Assyrian Church of the East already established in the city. They survived as a separate mission until the late 1950's when, fully Americanized, they melded with the main congregation.

The church named one of their main meeting halls, The Assyrian Memorial Parlor. There are pictures of all the ministers there now, and while the "regular" Congregational ministers are dressed in street clothes or academic preaching gowns, all the "Assyrian ministers" are dressed and look like any Catholic or Orthodox priest of the time, complete in black with Roman collar.

Looking at the membership of that congregation today, there are only a couple of Middle Eastern sounding names on the roles, and a couple are from the same family. I've been trying to find out more information about this "mission" but no one in charge in the church now seems to know any real history.

John

I wonder if this group is associated with the Southern Baptist Convention? The SBC is intellectually dishonest and corrupt, in my opinion. I think that you will find that in many baptist mission organizations, there is an approach of, "whatever works to get people in the door," even if it includes outright lying. I know this as one raised Southern Baptist. On a related note, I found two books by Jehovah's Witnesses' in our children's library. I promptly informed my priest and was going to burn them but he said, "just throw them in the dumpster, they are not worth the effort of burning," and so we did.

Joe