www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall The Turning of Frank Schaeffer

I believe he did a number of talks with the Antiochians out at Ben Lamond a few years back. Not sure if he has had any association with them since.

I think Frank Schaeffer takes himself seriously enough for everyone!

God bless,

Gordo

Yes, much too true!!!

Joe

He puts the Calvinism back in anti-Calvinism.

I don't see an Orthodox world view in what he writes.

So converts from Protestant churches must express gratitude to them even if the experience in them was utter misery? I know its fashionable to go on and on and on about how fabulous the separated brethren are, but it doesnt hurt to sometimes see the truth about living in a protestant church. If they are so wonderful why would anyone leave them?

I am a cradle Orthodox so can't speak from experience. But I think in the case of Frank Schaeffer, the issue is the degree of his bitterness and anger which some think he has cherished and nourished. I have read of converts on the internet who speak of being "post-Catholic" or post-Lutheran in order not to deny the good things of their spiritual and cultural heritage in the case of Irish Catholics or Swedish Lutherans. Some converts see their conversion as a journey and acknowledge the lessons learned in their former churches.

I am in agreement with all Halia says here...there is a way of being dissatisfied with something or someone and having moved on, without putting them down-- or as many wise American grandmothers used to say: 'if you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all'...

I think that is in perfect agreement with the Orthodox Church Fathers and Saints who warn against the passions and the sins of the tongue...restraint of what one is saying, and how one is saying it, would be much more Orthodox of Frank Schaeffer and others like him.

Alice

Well if I ever think of anything nice to say about growing up in the Lutheran Church I will be sure and post it here.

Maybe, just maybe, the fact that Lutheranism predisposed you to accept and believe that Jesus Christ is the Way the Truth and the Light might be something to be grateful for... That alone might be a good starting point - it put you head and shoulders above the 3 out of 5 souls in the world that have no knowledge or utter rejection of Jesus Christ Who saves.

Kind of a big thing.

Think about it than consider posting here.

Alice,

I am reminded of a story told to me concerning a saint who had nothing bad to say about anyone. One time she was asked, "Is there anything kind that you can say about the devil?" She paused and thought for a moment and then said:

"He is a very hard worker!"

God bless!

Gordo

I share the views expressed here about Frank Schaeffer. When I was a catechumen, my priest said that he would not recommend anyone to read 'Dancing Alone', even the very title was un-Orthodox. I didn't read the book, but I did borrow an audio recording of one of his talks, given in Montreal. I was left unimpressed. He came off as sounding like the Orthodox Church didn't know how lucky it was that he converted, because unlike all those 'ethnic' types, he knew what it was really all about and could show them how it's done. At one point, while ranting about the lack of missionary zeal in Orthodoxy, he even said that if he hadn't discovered the faith then the church would have had his blood on their hands. I thought it was extraordinary and I couldn't help thinking that if my great-grandparents had struggled as Greek immigrants to build an Orthodox church in America, I would like them to be shown rather more respect. Methinks he doth protest a little too much.

Great analysis, Brigid. I think he is more provocateur than prophet. His writing and presentation style are intended to "shock" probably with the hope that its lasting effect will be some previously undiscovered "illumination".

The difference is that in this new book he shocks with immorality, replete with all sorts of foul language, and not with divine truth.

Personally, I prefer the whisper in the cave to the earthquake and howling winds...

In ICXC,

Gordo

Re: Shock value

I agree. When I was a Catholic I avoided some of the pro-life groups because their literature was too frank in speaking about the general immorality which led to abortions. I felt violated after reading it and so I discontinued many subscriptions.

One does not need to know all the evils of the world in order to approach theosis. Indeed, custody of the senses is necessary for purification, sanctification, illumination, and deification. That is why during Christmas Lent and Great Lent, we are told to avoid (1) reading secular magazines and newspaper; (2) viewing TV; (3) listening to the radio; (4) posting in some or all forums about certain topics; and (5) limiting our telephone and friendly conversations, in other words, guarding our speech.

I myself have not read anything Franky has written, although, I did like his Dad's writings, and have them in my library.I have learned much at the feet of Baptist theologians when I was at Temple Baptist Seminary (TBS), and I am now happy to see that such publishers as Ignatius Press echo much of the view of Scripture and general theology that I learned at TBS.
one thing that bothers me about Evangelical converts to Orthodoxy or to Catholicism is while what they learned in their former churches is valuable (and I am qualified to dicuss this), is can they stop being such mavericks? a letter from an Orthodox Priest that I read some time ago in "Cornerstone" published by the Fellowship of St. James (prayers of thanksgiving for them)was quite thought provoking. it seems that once the magic of Orthodoxy is over, many Evangelicals start falling by the wayside. why? they seem to have problems with authority, and like it or not, authority is a biggie in Rome and in Constantinople. so, can this have an effect in their writings, comments, whatever? I can appreciate the poster that seeks a blessing from the Priest before purchasing certain material. that is acknowleding spiritual authority. does Franky do the same before he begins to spill ink? do any of us?
Much Love,
Jonn

Dear Friends,

There is an episode in the venerable series, "Bless me, Father" where Fr Duddleswell helps a Catholic girl marry a Protestant man whose well-to-do mother was very much against the union.

Afterwards, the man asked Fr. Duddleswell to be received into the Catholic Church.

"But why?" asked Fr. Duddleswell. "Your mother is a deeply committed Evangelical Calvinist . . ."

"Exactly," said the sad-faced man.

"I think I get the picture," said Fr. Duddleswell, as he winked at the two of them . . .

Alex