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Ghazar, you indeed missed the point big time.
Miles, God Bless you for your deep undertanding of what Father John and his grandson have been enduring.
Oh Lord, give Father John Your Peace for he did what he believed was right at the time. He never abandoned You.

Yes... no man can judge him and he need not judge himself.

My heart goes out to him. May he have suffered enough.

-ray

Myles and Pavloosh,

I don't think Bill missed the point at all, although I'd agree that the comment about "the latinizing party" didn't add anything and could as easily have been left out. I suspect that, in retrospect, he himself might agree.

Alex,

I think your grandfather did what he felt was necessary at the time, undoubtedly not without significant spiritual and mental anguish on his part. I applaud Vladyka Isidore, of blessed memory, for the charity, love, and understanding that he showed in receiving your grandfather back into communion. The observation of your current Eparch, though likely well-intentioned, was unfortunate.

Your grandfather and those others who made the same choice unquestionably did much in the intervening decades for the spiritual care of the people, Catholic and Orthodox, whom they served. Without them, it is likely that Ukraine would have been a spiritual desert.

Your grandfather indeed suffered, though in a different way than those who were sent to the gulags. I think it regretable that he lived those many years feeling that he had committed such a great sin that it necessitated yearly re-absolution. Never be ashamed of him or the decision that he felt he had to make.

May the memory of the Priest John be eternal and thrice-blessed.

Many years,

Neil

A transfer from being under one Patriarch to another - within the same One Holy and Apostolic Church - that is what I would say. No big thing in God�s eyes. And that is all the Latin Church considers such a thing to be - a transfer within the universal church.

It is a shame that the artificial (and if you ask me - not real) divisions of the churches has been the ground work by which Fr. John suffered.


Further comment for Alex�

Both Josef AND your grandfather - suffered under Communism. Just in different ways. We all see that and say that.

What is the difference if a strong man tells you that you have a choice between having your right hand burned - or you left hand burned? Can another man judge and say �You were wrong to have your left hand burned - you should have had your right hand burned�?? Gulag in the snow or gulag in the heart?

Of course if the church were not divided the gulalg in the heart would not have happned.

Now I am not sure I see anything sour in this comment �John, why didn�t you come along with us to Siberia�� in as much as the two men knew each other and we should not assume this was a leading question. Perhaps if John had answered - Josef might have said �I see - and you were right to do so John.�

But I am not comfortable with this statement "It's obvious he wanted to do penance for his sin." Which, at face value - seems to me to assume no charity and no effort to understand the man or relieve any un-necessary guilt he suufered. As a bishop - I would think it is his calling to relive suffering especially if it is unnecessary and uncalled for. If I were bishop (fat chance) I would have listened to Alex - and then asked to meet with this man - so that I (as bishop and father of priests) would assure him of his innocence in the matter. But I would guess that that old dog which keeps the human aspect of the church divided - had something to do with this lack of charity.

The sad thing is - such situations only have �power� when the church is divided.

And as tempted as I am to say that it was an unholy alliance between Moscow and Communism - I must remind myself that the Moscow Church suffered much - and itself - divided. Ultimately anyone that Communism touched - suffered.

I am moved by the letter of the Moscow Patriarch to the head of the Russian Church Outside of Russia... hoping to be reunited... asking forgiveness and noting that the times were such when men did what they did not want to do.

Now you see Alex - we are all unanimous in our thoughts. And now your grandfather is in all our prayers. May God bless him as he in his priesthood has bless others.

May this silly division come to an end in my life time!

-ray

Where, oh where, did that come from?!?
One shudders at the consequences in affirming such an idea that is nowhere in Christian Tradition.

Dear Friends,

I thank you for your very sincere and loving and introspective thoughts and commentary!

May God bless you for taking the time and care in sharing this with me!

Alex

Well put, Brother Ray.

Durak, I would suggest you take a course in moral theology. It is very much a part of Latin Moral Theology.
Obejective no you do not committ sin but subjectively you do, because you go against your conscience doing something you think is wrong, even if you conscience is in error.
Stephanos I

For example. If a man believes that killing insects violates the 5th commandment but kills them anyway he is in mortal sin. Objectively the man has not broken the 5th commandment but in his heart (and ignorance) he believed that when God said 'do not kill' he included insects. Thus, he has made a choice to set his will against what he thinks is the will of God. This is what condemns him: His willingness to disobey God's will. That is, if it were objectively errant to kill insects, he would still act against God because he has elevated his intellect above the authority of His creator. His conscience thus condemns his pride.

PS) Alex your Grandpa was a good man

Yes, I see and know that "I flew my kite in defiance of God" can be a mortal sin. But this is what I had in mind in responding to the case presented in this thread -

I was taught by the nuns:

For a sin to be a mortal sin, three conditions must be present:

1. It must be a serious or grave matter.
2. The one acting must clearly know it is a sin.
3. The one acting must freely choose to commit the sin.

A priest once told me somebody once confessed to stepping on cracks in the sidewalk. This was considered an opportunity to correct an ill-formed conscience, not the communicaton of Sacramental forgiveness. ("Grave matter" not present.)
Your further thoughts, please.

Objectively the conditions you listed are correct. Fr Stephanos was not speaking about the objective level but the subjective. It is that defiance of God that underpins this issue (which itself is a mortal sin, the sin of pride). The Church's teaching is not there to give rise to scrupulosity over habitual sins. But to emphasise that when someone makes a concious and willing decision to go against God's will they are committing a mortal sin. Hence, if someone makes no effort to break with venial sin that too is a mortal sin. The matter becomes grave because of the defiance.

Dear Friends,

Thanks to all for providing me with fresh perspectives on this - things that hadn't, until now, occurred to me!

For my grandfather, the matter of becoming an Orthodox priest under force was a grave moral issue.

At the same time, it is important to note, as well, that for him and others like him this was tantamount to a kind of "national treason" as well.

The Russian Orthodox Church didn't only sever the ties to Rome for the UGCC - as in history, it brought in Russification on the spiritual and other planes.

The issue of the ROC being a willing accomplice to the Soviet regime is, for many Ukrainian and other Greek-Catholics, a moot point.

As they see it, the ROC has ALWAYS been a willing accomplice with respect to the policy of Russification by the Tsarist government etc.

So, for people like my grandfather, "signing Orthodoxy" (i.e. signing on the dotted line that you embrace union with the ROC) is BOTH a form of religious treason as well as national treason.

This is why, when he came here, there were people who always had their own whispered, cutting opinion of him - as if he had committed a real crime, should have stuck it out etc.

I always thought that was rich, given the fact that these same people were lucky enough to escape to the West . . .

My grandfather, however, bore no ill will toward the Orthodox Church! All I have in terms of interest in Eastern Christianity, I have from him!

I remember him with great fondness and am thankful for all the spiritual lessons he gave me.

I used to go to confession to him right in my parents' home where he and my grandmother also lived.

His emphasis in confession was always the importance of a regular prayer life. All other sins, he believed, flowed from a faulty prayer life.

His penances for me were always a short rule of prayer of Our Father's and Hail Mary's, but said several times a day, throughout the course of a few weeks - just to try and build a habit of regular prayer in me.

He used to pace while praying his torn Horologion.

In his old age, my grandfather looked very much like the aging Pope John Paul the Great - the resemblance was uncanny!

He especially esteemed the Orthodox saints and commented on their very holy lives.

It was he who first told me about the stigmata of St Pavel Goydich OSBM and about how Greek-Catholics venerated his memory privately.

Alex