|
3 members (theophan, 2 invisible),
107
guests, and
18
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,219
Posts415,299
Members5,881
| |
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,231
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,231 |
I am not so sure there is so much a longing for latin in the mass as much as there is a longing for that type of worship. The Serbian Orthodox church here has most of the liturgy in English and it is reverent and does not require any handholding or armwaving, altar girls, nor elderly women in mens clothing serving communion. I think the traditionalists would never have made a fuss if the mass had been made available to them in the style offered in this film from St Clements Anglican Church in Philadelphia. http://s-clements.org/Resources_HighMass.htmlDwight--I think that you've hit the nail right on the head. It's the longing for the reverence and dignity and NOT for the Latin. Knowing a lot of people who frequent the two RC parishes in the town where I live, if the priest in either place decided to do either the new Mass in Latin or say the old Mass, the people would squawk, and loudly. These are both large, bustling parishes with lots of families and activities. The church I now attend is very much like St. Clement's above, Tridentine rite rubrics, but all in English, except when the choir sings the ordinary Mass parts set by a composer. Also, my parish is a bit less Ultra-Montane than St. Clement's and a bit more Sarum in feel. Personally, I'd rather worship in English. John K
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 140
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 140 |
I doubt that the old rite will ever be widely available again. It appears that most who valued the Mass of the Ages have walked out of the roman church never to return. The ones I knew left at the first changes and labeled the transitional liturgy the Abomination of Desolation, and they hadnt even seen the ugly product on offer now. Those that did not find traditional priests went orthodox as far as I am aware. I doubt many went protestant, though I could be lured to St Clements in Philadelphia or St Barnabas in Omaha.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678 |
I have to disagree with Dwight's assessment. The new generations, like myself, are deeply drawn toward traditional praxis and liturgy. It is my firm belief that the Novus Ordo, as celebrated as it is today in most places, will be a dinosaur in a century.
Alexis
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 140
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 140 |
You are privileged to attend a wonderful church. As far as I can find out there is no anglo-catholicism in Montana.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476 |
Alexis wrote: I'm an idiot. I could have sworn it said 1962, though. LOL. I'll chalk it up to age.
Last edited by Byzantophile; 01/10/08 02:56 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,180
Orthodox Christian Member
|
|
Orthodox Christian Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,180 |
I have the New Marian Missal for Daily Mass by Sylvester P. Jergens, S.M. printed by Veritas Press with a 1958 copyright.
I had a similar missal as a child before the 1960s and loved it.
The English translation of the Latin conveys faith, reverence, and love of God. It still uses the thee and the thou.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 787
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 787 |
The pronunciation is quite easy as it is pronounced like Italian after St. Pius X mandated a uniform pronunciation.
And the priests who went to the North American College should already know how to pronounce Italian. Of course, Pope Pius X had no right to mandate that horrible Italian pronunciation...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 787
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 787 |
Interestingly, the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest has permission to observe the TLM as it was before the 1955 changes, except they use only 7 lessons in the Saturday Vigil instead of the usual pre-1955 12 lessons. Other than that, they celebrate the pre-1955 Holy Week schedule, except possibly the timing of the Saturday Vigil. Don't know for certain about that. Good for them! The 1955 Holy Week and 1951 Holy Saturday changes were most ill-advised.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518
Catholic Gyoza Member
|
|
Catholic Gyoza Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518 |
The pronunciation is quite easy as it is pronounced like Italian after St. Pius X mandated a uniform pronunciation.
And the priests who went to the North American College should already know how to pronounce Italian. Of course, Pope Pius X had no right to mandate that horrible Italian pronunciation... Edward, So you prefer "wennee, weedee, weekee" to "vennee, veedee, veechee?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 787
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 787 |
i tend to use a mediaeval pronunciation: venny, viddy, vissy. when i want some fun, i use the english pronunciation: ven-nigh, vai-dai, vai-sigh. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476 |
Interestingly, the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest has permission to observe the TLM as it was before the 1955 changes, except they use only 7 lessons in the Saturday Vigil instead of the usual pre-1955 12 lessons. Other than that, they celebrate the pre-1955 Holy Week schedule, except possibly the timing of the Saturday Vigil. Don't know for certain about that. Ugh! Even the Anglo-Catholics use all 12...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678 |
Yeah...I have no idea why they don't. It doesn't make logical sense to me.
Alexis
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,029 Likes: 2
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,029 Likes: 2 |
Hey, I am under 70 and a baby boomer, and I can recite the Latin in my sleep. I have to watch that now. And my wife complains about alleged snoring . . . (One night when I couldn't sleep and was staring at the ceiling, I saw her arm come over to shake & turn me to stop my "snoring"--she was dreaming it!) Once in an oral Spanish exam, I accidentally used codeswitching and I came out with a very creative sentence where I used French, Spanish and Latin. The professor had a good laugh. At least I did not toss in German too. I drove the German instructor nuts by my knack for yanking pronouns & such in from Spanish . . . hawk
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,180
Orthodox Christian Member
|
|
Orthodox Christian Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,180 |
My husband also informs me that he was puzzled when I did the same (my arm launched in an attempt to wake him when he was already awake). However, one morning, we both awakened to singing -- I was singing a latin hymn. Hey, I am under 70 and a baby boomer, and I can recite the Latin in my sleep. I have to watch that now. And my wife complains about alleged snoring . . . (One night when I couldn't sleep and was staring at the ceiling, I saw her arm come over to shake & turn me to stop my "snoring"--she was dreaming it!)
Last edited by Elizabeth Maria; 01/14/08 07:05 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 |
Since the Pope is the head of the only state to maintain Latin as its official language, I suppose he has the right to determine the pronunciation, spelling, grammar and syntax of the language - although I have no idea how he would go about enforcing his decisions in such matters.
Fr. Serge
|
|
|
|
|
