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Dear Alexis:

One bishop (an Eastern Catholic Bishop) sent me to Catholic Answers. The fellow at Catholic Answers ended up running to the Orthodox Church faster than I did.

The other Bishop (a respected RC Archbishop) just told me to follow my conscience. So, I went Orthodox when a couple of Eastern Catholic Priests told me that the difference between the Catholic and the Orthodox Churches was just cultural-political rather than religious.

Hope this helps.

In Christ,
Elizabeth

Dear Elizabeth Maria,

And in my community, the differences between EC and Orthodox aren't even that!

It has more to do with how certain EC hierarchs and Rome as a whole were treating EC's at the time - this is what largely accounts for over 90% of the membership of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada.

And "returning to Orthodoxy" occurs up here on a sporadic basis.

When Rome appointed an Apostolic Administrator over the head of our long-time Eparch, a lot of people were not happy.

At an event in a church were both the Orthodox and EC bishops were present, I actually overheard the Orthodox bishop say to the EC one: "And what is going on with you (people/your church) that so many are coming over to us?"

There was a time in Canada when if you weren't Orthodox, you weren't really "Ukrainian."

It is very easy for a Ukrainian Catholic to join the UOCC. One need only tell a priest in confession of one's desire in this respect and recite the Creed without the Filioque and "presto changeo - voila!"

An Anglican friend with an RC wife who joined the UOCC was quite upset at the news. He said the UOCC discriminates in favour of UGCCers.

I asked him what his point was . . .

Alex

Yes, I have known Melkites who, when they were traveling even in certain parts of Greece, were allowed to receive Holy Communion in the Orthodox Churches they visited even without converting to Orthodoxy if they confessed their sins beforehand. However, not all Orthodox Priests will allow this.

Hello all,
I am a Catholic (latin) considering joining an Orthodox Church... I realize i must pray and discuss this with priests from both churches as well as family and friends. My question for the time being is more practical... while I am deliberating is it alright for me to continue to receive the sacraments of penance and eucharist within the Catholic Church? I feel that I probably needs these the most right now and I believe that it is appropriate but I want to double check?
Thank you,
Will

Have you thought about trying a Eastern Catholic Church? The Melkites are very good. If you want some of the best minds in the west I would contact a Fr Hugh Barbour at St Michaels Abbey in Silverado CA. They have a website. They are Norbertines. For an eastern Catholic priest I would contact Fr Thomas Loya in Chicago area. His Parish is Annuniciation in Chicago area. He is always helpful. These priests could answer your questions quite well. Fr Hugh has a good knowledge of the east and the west. Not only is he one of the smartest men around he is also a good, kind and holy priest.His email is on the website.Prayers to for you.

Joe,

I've pondered your response here a bit, but I cannot help but be a bit puzzled by it.

Are you saying that because Rome changed its overall tone (not necessarily its teaching) towards Christians not in full communion with the Catholic Church and developed a posture of openness, dialog, self-criticism, humility and affirmation of the good (as opposed to the previous bunker/fortress mentality that defined so much of post-Tridentine Catholicism until Vatican II), that this is a bad thing? That it reveals the Catholic Church's weakness and lack of doctrinal integrity?

"Tone" and "posture" are not covered under the rubric of infallibility and to my mind this change reflected great integrity on the part of the popes and the Church's hierarchy. The Second Vatican Council was an extraordinary achievement in that it corrected much of the trajectory of Catholicism, without denying anything of what had been affirmed before. It sought to apply many of the insights of the ressourcement movement, returning to the authentic spirit of the Apostles, Evangelists and Church Fathers (not always so well reflected by the Scholastics). Lumen Gentium and Dei Verbum were, IMHO, its crowning achievements, along with Guadium et Spes and several other documents looking at the Gospel, the Church(es) and the World and their contemporary needs through the hermeneutic of continuity with 2000 years of tradition (not just the hermeneutic of post-Tridentine Catholicism). There is a true discernment of what the "Spirit is saying to the Churches" in this council, much of it being attributed to the tireless work of the Melkite hierarchy and to the likes of Augustine Bea, Joseph Ratzinger, Yves Congar, Henri DeLubac, Jean Danielou, Louis Bouyer, Karol Woltija, etc etc.

And to my mind, we are NOW finally beginning to reap the authentic fruits of this Council - the problems of the last 40 years being something of a "blip" on the historical scene.

By the way, if you are looking for some great reading along these lines, you might consider the recently published Joseph Ratzinger - Life in the Church and Living Theology: Fundamentals of Ecclesiology with Reference to Lumen Gentium by Abbot Maximilian Heinrich Heim. It is simply excellent.

http://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Ratzin...mp;s=books&qid=1201866204&sr=8-4

God bless, my friend.

Gordo

William,

My own advice would be to seek the counsel of your Catholic priest on the matter of receiving the sacraments at your Catholic parish. I would also echo the counsel of Mrs.MW about exploring Eastern Catholicism. If you are in NYC, there is a wonderful Russian Catholic parish there with a tremendous priest. You might also consider visiting and speaking with him.

http://stmichaelruscath.org/

In ICXC,

Gordo

As a Latin Rite Catholic considering changing 'Rites' I would urge William 8 to consider the Byzantine or other Eastern Rite Catholic Church....they offer the best of 'both worlds'. There does not seem to be the modernism/relativism as one finds in certain parts of the Latin Rite Church, there is the Eastern spirituality and liturgy virtually identical to the Orthodox, the Filioque is correctly ommited in the Creed, and remain a part of the 'complete' Church. The Latin Rite recognizes the legitimacy of the Eastern Orthodox but most Orthodox do not recognize the Roman Catholic Church in the same way.

Hi Will,

I am a former Catholic who converted to Orthodoxy.

I would suggest to continue receiving the sacraments in the Catholic Church, unless and until you make the firm decision to join another church.

(Also, the Eastern Catholic Churches --the Eastern "rites"-- can allow you to remain Catholic. It can be a viable alternative to Orthodoxy, or a stepping stone to Orthodoxy.)

The sacraments are vehicles of God's grace, and you will especially need His grace while you discern where you could the best place for you in Christ's Church.

But that's just my two cents.

-- John

William,

I wrote you a private message.

Gordo,

I just e-mailed Joe a short essay paper by a Latin Rite seminarian-friend discussing this exact topic and a few of Joe's concerns (i.e., that the Vatican has changed its tone pre- and post-V2). If you PM me your e-mail address I can send it to you as well.

Alexis

Once I had decided that going to Orthodoxy was a serious consideration, I stopped going to communion. I think that this actually helped me clear my thoughts.

Joe

Gordo, I'm not saying that the tone is a bad thing, just that it is, at least existentially, inconsistent and confusing. If we completely divorce the spirit from what is being said, then all we have are equivocations.

Joe

Joe,

One could argue that St. Jerome differs widely in tone from St. Ignatius of Antioch, yet both are completely orthodox in their theology. Like the Church Fathers, popes also have their own particular personalities and temperaments that are reflected in their writings (for good or for ill). If I recall, there is even a quote from Pope John XXIII which seems to "dig" a bit at the posture of Pius XII (I believe) vis-a-vis the modern world.

The point is that no magisterial teaching exists in a vaccuum divorced from its author(s), his/their attitudes and temperament and training and the historical circumstances which precipitated its articulation. It always needs to be understood and interpreted contextually.

God bless,

Gordo