www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Is Scotch whiskey considered grain, like beer?

I was just given a bottle of Dewar's 12 year old Special Edition Scotch by a friend. (Gotta love friends like this; the bottle cost over $33.00 in the PA state store.)

If beer is considered liquid grain or liquid bread, how about this little item? Is this a Lenten dish like beer?

I bow to my more learned brethren.

BOB

It is my humble opinion, being in part a Scot and a descendant
of folk living in distilling areas, that whiskey is to be
considered a food. The Holy Canons say nothing about whiskey.
Indeed, the same must be said of vodka, the lifeblood of the
Russian people.

Edmac

That is the sort of friend we all need.


Altough fermented like beer at the beginning, the fact that whisky is a distilled spirit would probably put it in the category of wine in terms of Lenten prohibitions.

Some may treat beer like wine, but it was certainly among the Lenten fare of western monastics.

Also, in Scotland it's "whisky" and in Ireland it's "whiskey".

His Grace Bishop +Basil in the Paschal Pilgrimage recommends abstinence from alcoholic beverages as much as possible on the weekdays of Lent other than the feasts where wine may be taken such as the Annunciation in his general fasting guidelines.

Many bishops in Russia and Ukraine do indeed preach abstinence during the Great Fast, surely knowing the tendency towards overconsumption of horilka and vodka of much of the population.

Kvas is usually taken in monasteries which is essentially non-alcoholic malty sort of root beer - while it may have a trace of alcohol, it was never seen as breaking any abstinence on non-wine days. I love it - especially Kvas Monastyrsky from Kyiv which a local store carries.

If one looks at the recipes for both bread and beer, one sees the same list of ingredients - albeit in different measures: grain, water, yeast and salt.

With more liquid, one gets beer. With more flour, one gets bread. Clearly, bread can be made from a mixture of beer and flour, with more flour to create a solid product. Less grain rendered the liquid.

Thus, western monastics understood beer to be a liquid bread. Since it was 'liquid', it wasn't solid food and so did not break the daylight fast of solid food during Lent. But it allowed the individual to have the sustenance to work in the fields.

As for Scotch, I think the idea about 'intoxicating' beverages applies. I mean, how much Scotch would I have to drink to have the sustenance to perform my work in the fields? But, of course, after several portions, who cared?!?!

The qustion, of course, remains: is a Scotch after work and before dinner something that negates the fast of Lent? I'm not sure it does. If one is abstaining from fleshmeat and dairy, and performing other works of charity (almsgiving, etc.) then an 'unwind' drink after removing one's shoes and before preparing one's dinner doesn't seem like a critical issue. Unless, of course, one decides to make it an element of the fast.

Now, let's talk about Brussels Sprouts......

Blessings!

Dr John

A liquid grain? A lenten dish? Bob, I bow my head to *you*: that's the best blarney I've heard in a while.

-- John

Thanks for the responses. I was not trying to make fun of anyone's Lenten discipline or be flip--especially after hearing that some consider beer to be "liquid bread." Learned something that day. I just thought I'd run that by the group and see what the consensus is. After all, as I used to tell my students when I taught, there's no such thing as a silly question unless you count the ones people don't ask.

Since I'm not allowed any alcohol at all with the many medications I take, this gift will probably collect dust on the shelf until I figure out who to give it to next Christmas. Probably my brother or my son.

BOB

We should take into consideration that it was often safer to drink beer than it was to drink the water "back in those days". Also, beer provided the calories needed to keep them working throughout the day. If only Gatorade had been around back then to keep em going all day long!! :-)

I don't mean to joke in any way, but my take is that I will avoid beer consumption during the weekdays of The Great Fast. And considering that I was given 2 six-packs of IPAs, 1 six-pack of an ESB, 1 six-pack of an Altbier and 1 Belgian Trappist Ale, it will be trying time indeed!!! LOL.

Aaron

The fasting rules are based on what satisfies, and having tasted the most excellent Lagavulin, I can assure you that in the spirit of the fast, Scotch is not a lenten item.

PRESTER JOHN:

Trust me, when I was able to drink alcohol without restrictions, some years ago, a 12-year-old Scotch was more than satisfying.

BOB

Eeks! No! *shudder*

No salt in beer, but it does have hops for bitterness and aroma.
With a couple of exceptions involving modern equipment, flour will give you *serious* problems in making beer.



The calorie/alcohol ratio will be about the same as for beer. Whiskey is pretty close to an unhopped beer with much of the water distilled out (also, due to the temperature at which it is initially fermented, it would be wretched as beer due to revolting off-flavors).

That said, when beer is mashed, the starches turn to sugars. If memory serves, it's the higher temperatures that produce more longer sugars and less fermentables (I think that's why I chose the high end of 158F for my own). I suppose a really low temperature mash could produce more alcohol per calorie, but you're still going to be in the same general ballpark--I don't think you're going to get to 2:1 as compared to a high temperature ferment.


Time to organize a fast from lima beans and cooked spinach! (oh, wait, I've done that year round for decades

hawk

I've never verified the tale, but it is reported that German monks sent samples to Rome to find out if it was an appropriate Lenten fare. By the time the samples reached Rome, age and temperatures would have rendered them quite unpleasant. The pope found it an appropriately penitential drink . . .

hawk (noting that if it's not true, it should be!)

I have a similar fast. I don't eat anchovies or raw, pickled herring or pickled pigs feet. shudder, shudder, shudder

BOB