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#27696 01/07/05 01:56 PM
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Turks disrupt Epiphany dive

ISTANBUL (AFP) - Turkish nationalists chanting slogans and waving the flag of an extreme right-wing party yesterday tried to disrupt a Greek Orthodox religious ceremony here called the benediction of the waters of the Bosporus.

As part of a tradition dating back to Byzantine times, a crucifix is thrown into the waters and young divers plunge in, competing to recover it. Some 60 nationalists interrupted the proceedings waving flags of the National Action Party (MHP) and chanting, “This is Turkey here, like it or leave it.”

Hundreds of members of Istanbul's Greek Orthodox community attended the ceremony held every January 6 on the banks of the stretch of water known as the Golden Horn, which cuts into the western side of the Bosporus dividing the city's European and Asian sides. Police held the intruders back, and they later made an equally unsuccessful attempt in fishing boats to invade the section of water where the ceremony took place.

www.ekathimerini.com [ekathimerini.com]

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Alice,

Some will say that real Islam isn't like this. Yes and No. Just as the Qur'an sometimes promotes peace when it is advantageous to do so and sometimes promotes war when it was advantageous to do so so modern Muslims do the same. The majority of people may be peace loving. Many passages in the Qur'an, Hadith, and Sunna may promote peace but for the most part if you aren't Muslim you are considered people against whom Muslim must fight.

One positive note in all of this: Every Christian I've ever met who have moved here from those countries tend to be more Orthodox and vibrant than their native American born counterparts. They enrich our culture.

We need to find some way to support our persecuted brothers and sisters in Muslim dominated countries.

Dan L

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And the Americans who were voicing the same message after "911" were told to shut up! I am learning more and more about these people and their "imams" who are the preachers of Jihad here in you know where.

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Dear Dan,

Persecution does wonders for strengthening one's faith. It's only when no one cares what you do that people slack off.... wink

Gaudior, in prayer for peace, while simultaneously hoping someone throws TURKS into the Bosphorus, next time.

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The majority of people may be peace loving. Many passages in the Qur'an, Hadith, and Sunna may promote peace but for the most part if you aren't Muslim you are considered people against whom Muslim must fight.
Sorry if my post added to a previous posters statement above where I used quotation marks for "these people" and "imams" offended anyone but there are certain facts in the media and I am sorry I offended anyone by not being "PC" By the way, imams are not really clergy, more like lay preachers.

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Having been in Constantinople several times, I can readily believe this horrible account. One really wonders what sort of people feel threatened or offended by a water-blessing service.

Incognitus

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Dear bergschlawiner,

Your comments cannot be dismissed as merely not PC.

If you are indeed an interrogator at Abu Ghraib, then in light of of recent misconduct, you should consider adopting a comportment that is beyond even the suggestion of impropriety. Comments about "these people", whomever that might entail, etc. are not helpful.

djs

PS Who was telling whom to "shut up" after 9/11?

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Originally posted by bergschlawiner:
Quote
The majority of people may be peace loving. Many passages in the Qur'an, Hadith, and Sunna may promote peace but for the most part if you aren't Muslim you are considered people against whom Muslim must fight.
Sorry if my post added to a previous posters statement above where I used quotation marks for "these people" and "imams" offended anyone but there are certain facts in the media and I am sorry I offended anyone by not being "PC" By the way, imams are not really clergy, more like lay preachers.
I see your quotes around "911" and "imams" but not around these people. OOPS! eek I put that expression in italics. GAK!! That's probably a PC sin in blue states. biggrin I had also wondered about imams. It sounds like to be one only requires you to declare that you are one, then you can preach whatever you wish. Do the Muslims have any equivalents to our formally ordained clergy?

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Originally posted by djs:


PS Who was telling whom to "shut up" after 9/11?
Good question, djs. I wondered the same thing.

I don't recall people being told to "shut up" when criticizing Islam after 9/11. I do recall, however, people being encouraged not to encourage in bigotry and violent attacks upon Islamic Americans.

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Originally posted by Gaudior:
Dear Dan,

Persecution does wonders for strengthening one's faith. It's only when no one cares what you do that people slack off.... wink

Gaudior, in prayer for peace, while simultaneously hoping someone throws TURKS into the Bosphorus, next time.
I agree completely.

Dan L

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these people. OOPS! I put that expression in italics. GAK!! That's probably a PC sin in blue states.
ByzTN,

Please don't suggest that stereotyping is considered irreproachable in red states; it isn't in mine.

(PS - off topic:
Jennifer, I liked your comments to those who seem indignant that anyone would dare to find the faintest silver lining on the tsunami dark cloud.)

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Originally posted by djs:
Quote
these people. OOPS! I put that expression in italics. GAK!! That's probably a PC sin in blue states.
ByzTN,

Please don't suggest that stereotyping is considered irreproachable in red states; it isn't in mine.

(PS - off topic:
Jennifer, I liked your comments to those who seem indignant that anyone would dare to find the faintest silver lining on the tsunami dark cloud.)
Who is talking about stereoptyping? I am looking for those quotes around "these people" in his original post that he referenced. I don't think they are there. As to what constitutes stereotyping, I will leave that to the chronic nitpickers. :p You are in a red state? ...I never would have guessed that!! wink

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Originally posted by Gaudior:
Dear Dan,

Persecution does wonders for strengthening one's faith. It's only when no one cares what you do that people slack off.... wink

Gaudior, in prayer for peace, while simultaneously hoping someone throws TURKS into the Bosphorus, next time.
I have to agree with you on persecution and the Turks. I think one of the reasons we have ongoing enemies is that we've never learned to effectively deal with them the first time around. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have energy independence and let the middle east take its oil and.... you get the idea. biggrin When they didn't have money, their capacity for mischief making was diminshed.

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Originally posted by byzanTN:
Quote
Originally posted by Gaudior:
[b] Dear Dan,

Persecution does wonders for strengthening one's faith. It's only when no one cares what you do that people slack off.... wink

Gaudior, in prayer for peace, while simultaneously hoping someone throws TURKS into the Bosphorus, next time.
I have to agree with you on persecution and the Turks. I think one of the reasons we have ongoing enemies is that we've never learned to effectively deal with them the first time around. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have energy independence and let the middle east take its oil and.... you get the idea. biggrin When they didn't have money, their capacity for mischief making was diminshed. [/b]
Byz,

Well, they couldn't reach us but they sure made life almost unbearable for Christians and Jews for 1400 years.

Dan L

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Originally posted by Dan Lauffer:
Byz,

Well, they couldn't reach us but they sure made life almost unbearable for Christians and Jews for 1400 years.

Dan L
True, and but for the intercession of the Theotokos, Europe would be a Muslim entity today. Wouldn't that have done wonders for ecumenism? wink I am biased. I pray to see Divine Liturgy in Hagia Sophia again.

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