www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall differing family opinions re: rites and mass vs. D.L.

What do you all think if one is very drawn to the east, but after a D.L. attendance or 2, one's spouse doesn't like it and has no interest in exploring the eastern spiritual life?

What spiritual life is she interested in?

Terry

well, I came into the Roman Catholic Church in 2000 from a teen and early twentys period of agnostic leanings after being raise non-denominationally christian, finding a need for God in my mid-twenties, and after reading C.S. Lewis, listening to the catholic radio station for a few months at work, decided it either had to be catholic or universal unitarianism of some kind of theistic agnosticism...but couldn't shake my Jesus upbringing and argue C.S. Lewis' points in "Mere Christianity".....end up going through RCIA in 2000 and being baptised in 2001, I believe.
As for my wife, she is from Mexico and does believe, but is more of a "cultural catholic" (not that I am any kind of saint, mind you) and doesn't really know or understand much about things like theology, or the whys or hows or whats of the whole thing, but says she'll go with me to 1 or 2 D.L.s @ the nearest Eastern Catholic Church, but there is no way she's "changing religions!" ~ I explained that parish and rite being different from ours doesn't make it a different religion, and try to explain church history, or my feeling of "spiritual dryness" (a term I've heard I can relate to) with our rite and believe me, I've been to all the local parishes...
So after discovering an Orthodox bookstore/chapel during work, and finding the iconography so beautiful, using it for a few years of Christmas presents...:p I've been at home on disability for a couple months and have had the opportunity to learn a few different things @ the east, the different expression of the faith, etc, read @ Orthodoxy, found out about eastern rite catholic churches, and brought the family to one semi-nearby...my 2.25 year old son scrambling around in combination with it all being different and she decided I could "change religions" if I want, but there's no way she's going to.....she did agree to let my dad watch him this sunday and attend Divine Liturgy with me so we can get a chance to really follow along and hopefully experiance it in it's entirety...I am not 100% decided to change rites, but I am feeling very drawn to the east and the liturgy, and as I pointed out to her, although we are neither Russian nor Greek, neither are we Roman or even Italian!
So I guess I am asking for opinions on the matter from you all, I know I will make my own choices but I am interested in any advice you all my have.

Peso ,

I am not Ukrainian , neither do I speak it - though I'm slowly learning to read it BUT I'm a very happy Ukrainian Greek Catholic.
I was received into the UGCC in September 2005.

If you are really led that way , you will realise it in time. My advice is do not rush things , take your time about it. Ask the Father what is His plan for you and listen to Him.

It would be best to go for awhile and not rush into anything. My husband is Ruthenian and I was Latin.In time I liked the east as well. Just go when you can and talk to the Priest. If you go back to The Russian Fr Alexei can explain some of the questions she might have. Fr Mel over in Van Nuys is good too. Don't rush her. You can also stay Latin and have a real love for the East. That is how Pope John Paul was.

After attending two divine liturgies, it seems quick to be so demanding of the change of her spiritual temperament.

Going to an Eastern Catholic from a Roman Catholic church is not "changing religions" but a change in rites, maybe she is not open to the East because she sees it as foreign.

If she has closed her ear to a conversation on the subject, see if there are any private bible studies offered at the parish which appeal to you and ask her to come with you if you believe it would not push her away. It can be a slow process. When someone feels pressured, they might resist.

If you are firm with your own development, she may listen to what your do; if you are firm with her development, she may not listen to what you say.

Terry

yes, good advice all around, I thank you all. I am not trying to rush her into changing rites or myself for that matter, but I just hope she can have an open mind about it.
Mrs.MW, I did attend the Melkite service last Sunday so as to let the rest of the family sleep in as I "investigated" further, Father Alexei did come up and talk to me after and was very nice, hopefully this Sunday if we don't get in a fight Sunday morning, she'll be coming with me to the 10 and maybe we can get a chance to experiance the whole thing, it's really not THAT much of a different liturgy, (Catholic in communion w/ the pope even! :p) there are the readings, hymns, eucharist; Hopefully we get a chance to talk to Father or we can benefit from the smaller congregation in some way, it seems more personal.

I'm a cradle RC, from an active family. I just about stumbled over the Byzantine/Ruthenian rite while in Pennsylvania--I knew they existed, we had several of them as leaders in the local Knights of Columbus, and I even knew where the church was. But I ended up there on one of those split-Mass for sick kids weekends when I got the time wrong at the RC church it hides behind.

I was in Awe, and started attending as often as I could (whenever my wife and I couldn't go to the same Mass).

I took the whole family. My oldest didn't like it, and my wife insisted that she "didn't want to learn another Mass"--having converted to RC from "generic flaky Protestant" as an adult, shortly before she met me. So it remained just me.

Then there was an eighth grade trip to a BC church, where the priest explained the liturgy as he went through, and my eldest was perfectly happy to come with me.

When we came home to Las Vegas, we returned to our old church up the street, and it was a good year before I actually hunted down the nearest BC church. We were again to split Masses--the eldest had to go to a specific Mass for her Confirmation class, which I couldn't sit through with any charity or piety, plus sick kids, etc.

Then I took her again on a week she didn't have to attend that Mass. She was much happier. Then the (much younger) twins--they met friends and happily trotted off to ECF "if she's going, too." This followed by my wife telling me she wouldn't object if I went separately from her if I wanted to go there. Then the eldest's withdrawal from the disaster that the Confirmation classes had become (she would have gone elsewhere the next year).

And then my wife coming, the first time all six of us were consistently in the same church together, and she happily settled in to the parish.

At this point, all of us except my wife plan to formally change rites (although #2 waffles, so we'll have her wait until certain).

OK, we *were* all sitting together at the same church. Then I ended up volunteering once and remaining drafted to serve. Then #2 was drafted as a cantor (both had been readers at the RC church). Then #1 sometimes as an usher (and other times sitting with her boyfriend :), and the twins passing out books!

Anyway, the point is to give it time. She doesn't have too change right to attend with you. She also may change her mind in favor of ti over time. For that matter, *you* don't have to change rite to register in an EC church.

hawk

My personal opinion:

Marriage is something difficult and needs a lot of work, even under ideal conditions.

Adding a split in church-going for no particular reason other than preference, seems unwise to me.

If you are both Catholic and she doesn't like the Byzantine rite and both of you find the Latin rite acceptable, stay in the Latin rite.

If you think it could be helpful, please contact me personally at: memorodriguez@usa.net

I also live in the LA area and I am also Mexican (Spanish is my fist language, actually), so perhaps I could help clarify the "Catholicity" of the Eastern Catholic Churches.

God bless!

Shalom,
Memo

I would support Memo's advice with the possibility that reading from the Eastern Saints and Fathers could satisfy your attraction to the East.

Terry

thanks again everyone, and I appreciate the offer Memo, but she'd get very mad if she found out I was dicussing these things with "strangers"
so this forum discussion is kinda on the down low as they say :p
We'll see, like you all said, I'll give it a few weeks and see how it goes. One of the things for me is, some of the externals in the RCC that are there that attracted me to it, making me feel a special spiritual feeling, aside from the apolgetics I had been reading, the eastern rites seem even more rich in...as well as the less "legalistic" more "spiritual" eastern angle on spiritual life that makes more sense to my mind and heart (i.e. there aren't prayer cards with 500 days indulgence for reciting such and such prayer, etc...)
But, I will take it slow and see. Thanks again!

Just to clarify,

The "number of days" on indulgence cards are not meant to be taken legalistically - although some have done so, while misunderstanding - example: in the Latin Church in the "old days" the penance given after confession would be "50 days" of "praying for your enemy" in recompense. The cards would say "50 days Indulgence" to express to the laity that praying the prayer on the card would be considered equivalent to the "50 days" imposed by the priest, when prayed after true confession, detachment from grave sin, and prayer of the Pope's intention.


Of course, like anything else, people allow Satan to take what is to be used for coming closer to God and make it an occasion for being separated from God.

There was a *lot* more than mere "preference" involved; there were serious problems in the parish, and I won't go into why they were associated with that particular Mass (The new pastor there is doing a great job with the badly needed healing).


The question in my particular case wasn't "Roman with family or the 11:00 with family" but "which Mass or Liturgy other than the 11:00.

We both find the Byzantine rite acceptable, though she took a bit longer to accept it. She disliked the "differentness," not the rite itself. What she disliked there was overwhelmingly outweighed by her reaction to the priest here.

All six of us are now happily at the same liturgy, although involvement in the liturgy leaves us scattered about the church.

hawk

For Latin Rite family members, a switch to the Byzantine can be very confusing. I remember attending my first Byzantine in the form of a Liturgy of the Pre-Sanctified at Holy Cross Greek Melkite in Placentia (not too far from Los Angeles) and being instantly hooked. I did not get the chance to attend another liturgy until my senior year of high school and began to switch back and forth between the Melkites for Vespers and the Ruthenians for Liturgy. Then the bomb dropped and my parents forbade me the switch I yearned for under pain of not paying for my college tuition. I stopped attending the Byzantine for about four months and then gradually resumed my attendance. I now am a parishioner at Annunciation Byzantine in Anaheim and am in the process of beginning my canonical switch. My father knows that I identify myself as a Byzantine Rite Catholic, and through learning to accept it is no longer threatening me with tuition (which is a big relief for me ). My mother through her motherly "intuition" pretty much knows what is happening. We never really speak about it in blunt terms, they go to their church and I go to mine and that is that. All you can do in situations like the one you are in is pray and seek priestly guidance. I found in doing so the my situation improved. You're in my prayers.

Err, I'm not the one in the awkward situation, that was the OP. My whole family has been quite happy in our Byzantine parish for some time. For the two older girls and I, it was the liturgy that won us over. The priest & parish won my wife over.

hawk