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Hi All,
I'm a bit confused about the kathisma numbering. In Journey Through the Great Fast Steve Pukula says that the longest psalm, psalm 118 (119) makes up kathisma 18, but my kathisma psalter lists this psalm as part of kathisma 17. I'm going with Pukula, but what's up with that?

Peace,
Indigo

It must be a typo. Psalm 118(119) is the 17th Kathisma.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Definitely a typo. Psalm 118 is the Seventeenth Kathisma by all reckonings - your Psalter is correct.

The 18th Kathisma includes Psalms 119-133 and is used at Vespers for weekdays of the Great Fast with the exception of the Fifth Week.
FDRLB

I just had the privilege of reciting Hesperinos from the Horologion last night. I hope to learn the rest of the Byzantine Divine Office as well. But let me tell you, the Horologion makes the traditional Roman Breviary look like a piece of cake!

It is interesting that the Assyrians/Chaldeans have a similar rendering of the Psalter divided into "Hullala" but with 21 units rather than the Byzantine 20 (In fact, one just might count the Nine Odes at the end as a kind of "21st Kathisma" since this is what the Assyrians in fact do).

One question: May I use the Coptic Horologion at times in place of the Byzantine one? I am committed to praying a portion of the Divine Office daily . . . what say ye?

Alex

Dear Byzantophile,

Well, I've no problem with the Byzantine Horologion (apart from finding the requisite time to recite it in full, but that's not going to happen any time soon).

Do you know how to recite the traditional Roman Breviary?

Could you help us out here?

Alex

The modern Breviary, no. The traditional Breviary, yes! What do you want to know?

Good for you! (who needs the modern stuff anyway? )

What is the way to begin an Hour, the "triple prayer" and all that and how does one end an Hour via "closing prayers."

Also, is the recitation of the Office through Our Father's still OK?

Alex

Hehe.


Most of the hours actually only begin with the Dual Prayer. Only Matins and Prime begin with the Triple Prayer. If you are aggregating them you only say whatever is prescribed for the hour you begin with. As for closing the hours, they are usually closed with the silent Paternoster, versicle & response (Dominus det nobis...), and the seasonal Marian Antiphon (e.g. Salve Regina) and its Collect (Prayer). In addition there are prayers prescribed for before the Dual Prayer and after the Marian Collect.

A good website I highly recommend is this one, though it is run by a schismatic (and I think sedevacantist) Latin Catholic group. As well, they have some funny 'Medi�val Englishisms' like following Sundays after Trinity, rather than after Pentecost. But overall it is an excellent site:

http://www.breviary.net/


There are many alternate methods of saying the Divine Office. The (Domincan) Rosary is also another way since it has the 150 Aves to replace the 150 Psalms. If you are looking to learn more about the Western Divine Office, I would begin with the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary (traditional usage) as this is a simplified version of the Breviary. Baronius Press in London prints a nice copy which can be ordered on-line.

http://www.baroniuspress.com/book.php?wid=56&bid=47

The important things is to pray, everyday. If using the Agpeya enables you to do that I say do it, because ultimately unless your a monk bound to a rule, you can pray whatever you want privately. Although I must say I don't see how using the Byzantine Horologion alone without kathisma or propers is any longer than the Coptic Horolgion.

Fr. Deacon Lance

My copy of Attwater's Catholic Dictionary (from 1942) states that Byzantine Rite Catholic clergy are bound to say the Horolgion, though no fixed amount is prescribed due to the length of the daily Office.

WHICH Traditional Breviary? The 20th century has seen 3 editions of the Roman Breviary, namely:

1) The 1568 Breviary as codified by Pope St. Pius V (with 18 psalms for Sunday Matins, 12 psalms for weekday Matins, and 9 readings every Matins), in force until 1911;

2) The 1911 Breviary of St. Pius X (with 9 psalms and 9 readings for Matins and a totally new arrangement of the psalter. It cut the length of the Breviary by more than a third, and almost by half on some days.) Its promulgation is considered as the first salvo of the liturgical reform that led to the Novus Ordo in 1970. Breviary.net follows this breviary as it existed c. 1950.

3) The 1961 Breviary of Bl. John XXIII, which preserves the psalm structure of the 1911 breviary. However, there are 9 psalms but only 3 readings in Matins for most days, removing the majority of the Patristic readings from the Breviary and also suppressing almost all the Paters and Credos and all the Ave Marias in the Breviary. This breviary is the one now used by the SSPX, by almost all traditional religious orders in full communion with Rome, and which has been authorized by Summorum Pontificum for all Roman Catholic clergy as of Sept. 14, 2007. This decision effectively turned the still-unfinished (no musical notation) Liturgy of the Hours of Paul VI into a mere option side by side the 1961 Breviary.

It should be noted that editions of the Breviary post-1945 often use the New Latin Psalter of Pope Pius XII, which is generally considered as unsingable. It also greatly differs from the Vulgate Psalter.

The length of the 1568 and 1911 Breviaries are compared in this webpage:

http://www.kellerbook.com/length.htm

You can also compare the psalter schemas of the 1568 and 1911 breviaries here:

http://www.kellerbook.com/Foursch.htm

I must admit it is quite depressing to compare the 1568 breviary with the 1911 and 1961 breviary; it is even more saddening to compare the 1961 breviary to the 1971 / 1972 Pauline revision! At least, the 1911 breviary has one great advantage over the 1568 breviary: it ensured that all the psalms were recited every week. (The 1568 breviary also has the same principle, but in practice the calendar did not allow for the actual recitation of the psalter every week)

I am perfectly aware that we should pay more attention to quality in prayer than mere quantity. However, a certain quantity of prayer is also important, even necessary, to guarantee the ascetical quality of prayer. Besides, the older breviaries contained a large number of prayers, responsories, antiphons that can only be described as deeper and richer than their easygoing and prosaic counterparts in the new Breviary.

I find it ironic that, in the face of the secularization and despiritualization of the 1950's and 1960's onward, the Roman Catholic Church responded by making its work of prayer much, much shorter and more lenient. The contrast betwen that and the renewed rigor in prayer to be found in many Orthodox monasteries is quite stunning.

Dear Asianpilgrim,

Your point on quantity etc. is extremely well taken!

I salute you!

Alex

Thank you for your insights, Byzantophile!

I have the Benedictine Office and sometimes use it during the day.

Cheers,

Alex

I forgot to add that there is another disadvantage to the 1961 Breviary. When the Matins readings were cut down for most days from 9 to 3, the effect often deprived the 3 readings of their meaning, since at least some of the discarded readings for the same day were the continuations /explanations / elaborations that were supposed to make sense of the first three readings. The reformers (vandalizers?) merely cut the last 6 readings without considering the impact it would have on the first three.

The Cornell Society for a good time has a post about this:

http://cornell-catholic-circle.blogspot.com/2006/08/st-jean-marie-vianney-and-roman.html


Quote:

"One problem with the old Breviary, he pointed out, as opposed to the old old Breviary is that on Sundays, while the first two readings are from Scripture, the third is a passage from one of the Fathers on the Gospel of the day, but it is generally too short to begin to get a sense for what the saint, whoever it might be, is trying to say. Whereas in the old old Breviary, with nine readings at Matins everyday, including Sunday, the reading from the Church Father on Sunday about the Gospel does fill three readings and so can express a complete thought, as it were.

"Two Sundays, about the Gospel of the dishonest steward who settles accounts of his master's debtors in order to provide a place for himself when his master has kicked him out, there was a reading from an epistle of St. Jerome, but it was such a tiny paragraph, about a complicated subject, that one was left scratching one's head - at least I was. Here it is, by way of illustration:

"Si dispensator iniqui mammonae, domini voce laudatur, quod de re iniqua sibi iustitiam praepararit; et passus dispendia dominus laudat dispensatoris prudentiam, quod adversus dominum quidem fraudulenter, sed pro se prudenter egerit: quanto magis Christus, qui nullum damnum sustinere potest, et pronus est ad clementiam, laudabit discipulos suos, si in eos, qui credituri sibi sunt, misercordes fuerint?

"It's one stinkin' sentence, and a question at that! albeit rhetorical. That doesn't quite do the Gospel passage justice, which is one, I think, requiring some wise explanation as to its insights. Now Jerome has given us a thought, to be sure: if the master was impressed by the dishonest steward, how much more so will Christ be merciful to us when we ourselves will have forgiven the debts of our brothers. Then, the daily readings were recently from the Third Book of Kings, and they had come to the great story of St. Elijah (we have a candle to prove that this is his proper title) and the prophets of Baal - but the readings don't even cover the climax of the story! Instead, they stop dead in their tracks with this, admittedly, great line: "Cumque esset iam meridies, illudebat illis Elias dicens: 'Clamate voce maiore!'" I love that line. But what don't we get the rest of the story?

There are weaknesses to the new old Breviary."

(By "new old Breviary" the 1961 / 1962 Breviary is meant)

Other interesting posts:

http://cornell-catholic-circle.blogspot.com/2006/10/will-there-ever-be-reform-of-roman.html

http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/10/more-questions-than-answers/#more-1072

Some have commented that, at present, if one wishes to recite the breviary in English, the best bet is actually the Anglican Breviary, which is an English translation (with a few additions from Anglican sources) of the breviary of St. Pius X. I also gather that some Western Orthodox are at work producing English translations of the medieval Office and of the Breviary of St. Pius V