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That masonic attempt to create a tame "living church" in Mexico is the origin of the present-day Orthodox Exarchate in Mexico, which is part of the Orthodox Church in America.
Incognitus
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Hi Incognitus
There were several groups that called themselves "National-Catholic Church". The Exarchate original parish had Old-Catholic roots (from a Brazilian bishop I think) but they were too recent (1960's-70's).
The "living church" I mentioned, is from the 1930's. Most of its clergy eventualy reconciled with the mainstram Catholic Church (even its main leader reconciled with Rome one or two years after his "consecration").
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Originally posted by Mexican:
That's undoubtedly true. When Mexico won independence from Spain, we were a great continental empire, with Christian rulers.
It was the British who established the Scottish Lodge in order to get juicy commercial contracts and private business, but they were quite mild actualy.
The agressive faction of the French-liberty sect came with Joel R. Poinsett(James Monroe's embassador) who created the "Yorkine Lodge". They spread all kind of subversive and anti-national ideas. They were so brainwashed that they were ready to sell half of our country and their own faith in exchange of "freedom of conscience and religion" and all this democracy and pluralism. This explains why people like Juan Bautista Vigil warmly welcomed Kearny's ocupation forces in Santa Fe in 1846.
It would be interesting for you to know that the first ones who warned Mexico about the subversive activities of the lodges, were the Russians. Even in Alta California, the Russians told the Mexican commanders that the lodges were planning a revolt among foreigners and a few traitors from our nation.
In 1865, our Emperor Maximilian was ready to outlaw the lodges except the Scottish one, but he was weak and he was defeated. When Juarez' masons won the war, they took lands that the Church lent to peasants freely, and sold them to land owners and foreigners. Wild capitalism and free-trade under British-American control were imposed.
The XIXth century liberals and the XXth century Communists are one and the same. But the PRI State did not conform to restrict religious activities, they killed, tortured, massachred hundreds of people.
It was their attempt to create a form of "living church" (with services in Spanish, married bishops elected by the people, civil marriage as sacrament, etc). A masonic priest who was willing to help them, was sent to the United States were a Russian agent, an "old-catholic" bishop Henry Carfora performed a consecration.
However, just as the living Church, the project failed and they tried to make the Roman clergy collaborate with them. Father Pro himself was offered the Bishopric of Puebla if he was willing to do so but he always refused. The people were ready for war, but the heads of Rome's Church betrayed their faithful and eventualy accepted an agreement with the government. An EXCELLENT explanation, which should be read by all those who don't believe how determined the Masons are (and always have been) to destroy the Catholic Church. antonius
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Is there a Spanish speaking Byzantine Catholic church anywhere in the US? Our Lady of Guadalupe Byzantine Catholic Church...the icon not made by human hands? With the growing Hispanic population and pastoral needs here in the US, I wonder if this should be something that is discussed at our August 6th conference. Sts. Cyril and Methodius Catholic Church is the Latin Slovak church right down the road from us in Minneapolis. (Historical Tidbit: Archbishop Ireland said it could only have one name at first - St. Cyril's. After he passed to his glory, they reunited the brothers in their name and legend has it performed a fa�iangy (carnival dance) over Ireland's grave.  ) Sts. Cyril and Methodius is now a Hispanic parish, although it still waves the Slovak Republic flag outside and sells Pirohi from time to time. (I wonder how one would taste filled with salsa?) Viva Christo Rey! (the last words of Blessed Father Miguel Pro before his execution) http://members.aol.com/blfrdamien/pro.htm Gordo - yes, I know my name means "fat" in Spanish. I guess I had too many Pan de Cristos as a child! :p
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Originally posted by CaelumJR:
Sts. Cyril and Methodius is now a Hispanic parish, although it still waves the Slovak Republic flag outside and sells Pirohi from time to time. (I wonder how one would taste filled with salsa?)
Not sure how salsa pirohi would taste, but I heartily recommend potato pirohi covered in chili con carne. Yummie! Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!
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I was told by a cantor at a Byzantine Church near my home that there are several Byzantine Catholic parishes in Southern California that have the Divine Liturgy in Spanish.
There may be one in Miami, too.
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Wow - that is great to hear! I did not realize that our liturgy had been translated - unless they are using an Orthodox translation.
With the demographic shifts that we are seeing, I think it would be very prudent for the BCC to look at helping to minister to Hispanics. So many are being swept up by the evangelical and AOG churches.
Gordo
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Not quite relevant to Mexico, but I noticed looking at the (admittedly nominal and unverified) official Eastern Catholic stats that:
- the largest Melkite Eparchy is the Eparchy of Sao Paulo, Brazil.
- the largest two Maronite Eparchies are those of Brazil and Argentina.
Both of which are about 1/4 to 1/3 of the worldwide Melkite or Maronite Churches.
Unless these are really hard-core Arab ethnic clubs, I'd imagine approved liturgies and evangelization materials in both Spanish (and Portuguese) exist. The Melkite translation, with Eparchal approval, could serve as a baseline for those who would want to try out a Spanish-language outreach.
[edited to add: I also see that the UGCC has fairly large numbers in Argentina]
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There are certainly translations of the Divine Liturgy and other services into Spanish (and there is NOTHING to prevent Greek-Catholics from using Orthodox translations). The shrine at Fatima has translations of the Divine Liturgy in Portuguese and uses them frequently.
Incognitus
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Unless these are really hard-core Arab ethnic clubs
They are.
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My apologies to our Mexican brother, but there is no reason at all to believe that the Byzantine chapel at Fatima is a hard-core ethnic club!
Incognitus
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Marc said I'd imagine approved liturgies and evangelization materials in both Spanish (and Portuguese) exist. The Melkite translation, with Eparchal approval, could serve as a baseline for those who would want to try out a Spanish-language outreach. I don�t know for Argentina, but for Mexico we have an official translation of the Divine Liturgy made by Abbouna Antoine Mouhanna, Apostolic Administrator of the Eparchy (we have just printed the latest revised edition) and have some small booklets also in Spanish about the history and traditions of the Melkite Church, specially one called "La Iglesia Melquita" (The Melkite Church) written in 1969 by Fr. Salomon Khoury. God bless
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Forum Keilbasa Sleuth Member
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Incog...
Fatima... that's in Portugual.
Wasn't the conversation talking about Brazil y Argentina?
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I was talking about the Maronite and Melkite Churches in Mexico.
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Hi, I was told by a cantor at a Byzantine Church near my home that there are several Byzantine Catholic parishes in Southern California that have the Divine Liturgy in Spanish. Well, last time I checked, this wasn't the case with the Cathedral of St. Mary in Van Nuys or the Parish in Anaheim. I know that Fr. Chris from Albuquerque, NM was interested and expressed need for pastoral resources in Spanish, but I do not know if his parish actually has a Liturgy in Spanish. Yes, Hispanic immigrants are finding their way into Byzantine Catholic families, and some times the family remains Byzantine, however, this doesn't seem to be bringing the Spanish language into the play very much. Which may not be entirely bad, actually. I just received the two CDs in Spanish I ordered from the site posted on this forum, and Byzantine Chant in Spanish still doesn't go down with ease. Greek and Arab Chant tones render the Spanish language in a rather "clumsy" way. Shalom, Memo
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