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We are not under Rome in the same way the Latin Catholic Church is. Why do the EC Churches need to participate in an internal Latin Church affair to select their own Pope?

We would still be in communion with him.

I personally agree that the EC's should be present at a Conclave.

But I can see Todd's point as well.

Either can be defended as fully Catholic.

I think this is a very good point. Many of us Latins don't fully realize the workings of and the relationship between the Holy See and the Eastern Churches.

However, if you look at this from a monarchical point of view things become clearer. The Eastern Patriarchs should not, at least in theory, be Cardinals since they are part of the Roman Court, and (by definition) clergy of the Roman Diocese and each is assigned a Titular Parish Church in Rome. Of course, one could also argue that since there are Eastern Rite parishes in Rome...

However, I agree with Alex that their voice should be heard at a conclave. Perhaps if they were, collectively, given the power of veto much like the Emperor of Austria had.

As well, couldn't other Patriarchs also have their own Cardinals?

Thoughts, comments, opinions?

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Dear Byzantophile,

Actually, your post is much better than anything I could produce on this subject.

It covers the whole topic comprehensively and brings a number of insights to bear specifically on the relationship between Rome and the EC Churches.

Not bad for a Third Order Mercedarian! smile smile

God bless you!

Alex

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Some Eastern Patriarchs do have "cardinals", but they aren't called "cardinals" - they are bishops and/or priests assigned to the Patriarchs parishes, his secretary, etc.. some of these priests have more real authority than some bishops, in virtue of their relationship to the Patriarch.

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Originally Posted by Byzantophile
However, if you look at this from a monarchical point of view things become clearer. The Eastern Patriarchs should not, at least in theory, be Cardinals since they are part of the Roman Court, and (by definition) clergy of the Roman Diocese and each is assigned a Titular Parish Church in Rome.

That still doesn't get you there. The King of England, for example, was also a vassal of the King of France for his holdings in Normandy and elsewhere. It was common for feudal lords to hold multiple fiefs from multiple other lords.

hawk

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On the letter the Patriarch Gregorios III sent to congrat the Pope Benedict XVI for his election, His Beatitude, recalling the diptyche of our liturgy, wrote "Souviens-toi, Seigneur, en premier lieu, de notre Tr�s Saint P�re Beno�t, Pape de Rome...". As far as I know, "en premier lieu" is equivalent to "among the first"...

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Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
E&W,

I don't see how that quote from Todd shows him as any less Catholic than you or I..
It is un-Catholic because the Pope need not seek communion with anyone. Everyone must seek communion with him. He is the Vicar of Christ and has the final say in the Church on Earth. It is he who has universal jurisdiction.

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East and West,

I have better username for you:

WEST (and east as long as they are utterly subjugated to the Pope of Rome, the only Pope, because Catholicism is the only the Pope)

Of course, by Pope, you always mean Pope of Rome, sadly you either completely forget or antagonistically disregared the etymology and historical usage of the word Pope.

You also forget that all Bishops are Vicars of Christ or that "universal jurisdiction" as you posit it is almost wholely alien to Patriarchal Churches sui iuris.


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"Catholicism is only the Pope"? Not in any catechism I've ever set eyes on.

Fr. Serge

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