www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Hating Hillary from Christianity Today

I ought to have my head examined for venturing into politics on this forum. A Disclaimer: I am NOT a Hillary Supporter, I am not voting for her. But I think sometimes the discourse I hear about her is very unchristian, and is very disturbing to me. So I offer this as food for thought:

http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/2008/march/14.26.html

*Nathan throws a tomato in Lance's direction

Lol, just kidding.

"While pundits see candidates as punching bags, evangelicals are supposed to see candidates as, well, people."

Good point. As a person, Hillary does not escape the consequences of original sin. As a person, she would do much damage to this country if she spearheads a shift to socialism.

Her talk about corporations and their unreasonable profit is quite terrifying.

Terry

Terry,

Thanks for your comment. I think it is fine to be very critical of Hillary Clinton or any other politician. They serve us, and must be accountable to us, and we should vote our values and work to defeat people we think will introduce destructive policies. We need to remember that all our made in the image of God, and as such, have an intrinsic dignity. And if Hillary or anyone else we do not like wins the white house, we must pray for them every day, and keep them before the throne of God.

Okay Nathan- you wisenheimer! LOL!

Ummm I thought the early Christians practiced socialism in that they shared everything. So it is a bad thing then?

Converted Viking

I think it's fair to say that some of the earliest Christians practiced a socialism of sorts. However, it was voluntary, and not imposed by the state.

Acts depicts a small community which, instead of socialism, would be closer to the Communist ideal where each individual contributes to the whole. The USSR never had a communist society.

Athanasius the L pinned the difference between the community in Acts and a socialist state on the head. It would have been better for me to have called expansion of government control democratic socialism, as it does not involve revolution.

Terry

Dear Lance,

That was an excellent article and as a Moderator, I thank you for sharing it.

Although we may not 'like' certain traits of a person's personality-- (my personal peeve about Sen. Clinton is that she makes the same kinds of catty faces and smirks that some types of women like to make, and that I do not think that such visible behaviour is professional in the position which she holds, as well as, and even more importantly, to the one which she aspires to)--but, as Christians we should respect each person's dignity and the responsibilities which they have chosen to uphold in service to their country.

Name calling is the lowest form of degradation of another, and is something which we Christians should discipline ourselves to try not to do.

Alice

Thank you Alice.

I must admit, I have not always been good myself about name calling.

I really admired John McCain for his mild rebuke of those who were engaged in the name-calling of his opponents. Senator McCain showed a lot of class. I appreciated very much the way he spoke about the issue, how he has philosophical differences with Sen. Obama and Sen. Clinton, but considers them honorable people who want to serve their country. He wants to stick to debating the issues.

As a Christian, I very much appreciate Senator McCain's remarks.

Blessings,


Lance

I'd say this much.

I do see Hilary Clinton, and for that matter Barak Obama, as people. They are people who hold to dangerous and false notions that would ruin the nation, and should not be elected, but people all the same.

Perhpas we as a people need to learn to be moe Charitable, but should never confuse Charitability with agrement.

I am also disturbed about the level of discourse. The modern style of spiteful and personalized politics (as opposed to the older style of spiteful and personalized politics :)) seems to have geared up in the Reagan administration (though there were bits in the Carter administration). While vicious attacks go back to the beginning of the republic (Hamilton was attacked as "the bastard son of a Scottish peddler" [which was, in fact, true :)]), by the Carter administration we reached "Carter" in a dismissive tone, devolving further to derisive use of "Ronnie" in the Reagan administration.

But the Reagan administration seems to be the point where policy differences led to real personal rancor, helped along by the attempted use of the criminal justice system in policy disputes. And now we have people today who think that the term "the Shrub" has a place in serious discussion . . .

I'd also put some blame on the Clintons while in office. The old dictum was to attack the man, but respect the office. This was made harder with an incumbent who himself seemed to not to respect the office, seeing it as a way to "get chicks."

Anyway, the overall behavior from both sides of the aisle, and their supporters, has become deplorable and indefensible (although I'll admit to having used the phrase "draft-dodger in chief")




hawk. whistling innocently while passing lance a head of rotten lettuce

Hilary Clinton does have a polarizing effect as well as having a reputation for, ummm, not being particularly pleasant and holding a grudge if she doesn't get her own way.

It irritates me that she claims "experience" by virtue of having been First Lady, but then claims the relevant papers aren't under her control so she doesn't have to release information. It seems that she should choose one or the other.

She supports the killing of young children on a massive scale.

I can't think of any kind words which could be said about that type of individual. Can one say a kind word about Hitler, Stalin, B2K, etc?

Only prayer and fasting can one cast out such a demon.

BTW, if you think I am a little over the edge consider this:
Source [ontheissues.org]
"Partial-Birth" Abortion [priestsforlife.org]

B2K doesn't ring a bell. Was he a dictator?

Dear Ray,

I fail to see how such sentiments are helpful in our public discourse. They do not help the prolife cause one bit.

And Scripture enjoins us to honor our civil leaders. We are to pray for those in leadership.

Such cavalier opinions might make us feel righteous, but are of no value in changing people's hearts and minds.


Blessings,


Lance

He was a serial killer.


Priest For Life [priestsforlife.org]

Watch This! [godtube.com]

Looks like she's won Ohio. Texas isn't far behind. God help us!

When she sets a goal for herself and binds her self-worth into its success, she can be persistent.

She did not take as decisive of a electorate gain as the headlines suggest. In Texas, she was eight delegates ahead of Obama and in Vermont she was three behind, but in Ohio she was ahead 24 delegates. All in all, she gained 35 delegates. http://election.cbsnews.com/campaign2008/d_delegateScorecard.shtml

Is that as decisive as some would claim? She lags behind Obama in the total delegate count. It may be that the DNC Convention in August will determine the victor. Normal delegates don't "have" to vote who they are pledged to, and superdelegates remain a wildcard.

Terry

"But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?" But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them."- Luke 9.53-56 NKJV

I agree we do not have to like her or what she does and I personally find it sickening that she will probably be our next president and I pray for all of those who are having martial relationships outside of marriage and or with no intent or acceptance that a human life may be formed from it. I pray for all of the unloved children growing in thier mothers womb who will never make it to thier first birthday and to all of the mothers who mourn and weep and long for that child who will never be able to adopt it. But we have to try to love her and to forgive her it is hard to do but it is what we are supposed to do. Even Satan is loved by God.

I put that quote, "If a mother can kill her own child, what is left for others" on my bio for a chess website and the administrators banned me from playing on their server.

The ban is still in effect, though I don't plany online chess anymore.

Terry

"But we have to try to love her and to forgive her it is hard to do but it is what we are supposed to do. Even Satan is loved by God."

A Hillary supporter might read this and believe you're comparing her to Satan. =)

It will be a challenge to love her as commander-in-chief.

Terry

Terry,

I understand what you are saying, it is tough for me to pray for some politicians, too. I am glad that the prayer books have blank spaces for us to just sort of "drop their names in the blank space," it makes it easier to pray for politicians who I vigorously disagree with. The prayers of the Church and the Holy Spirit help to me to pray for people I feel I do not like.

One time, this evangelical friend of mine at work, who also happened to be a strong Republican, told me about his attempts at witnessing to co-workers. In conveying the power of Christ's love and sacrifice, he told our co-workers that even Hitler could be saved if he accepted Christ in his last hour. I told him "how can they believe your example about Hitler, when you talk so hatefully about Bill Clinton?" (this was in the 1990's).

My point in this thread is simply that all people are made in the image of God. I do not see that I as a follower of Christ should express hate for a civic leader, but rather pray for them. "For the anger of man worketh not the justice of God." - James 1.20 DRB. I still can prophetically denounce evil policies or public behavior.

That is all I have to say about it.

Blessings,

Lance

Forgive yes, tolerate NO! Satan will have willing representatives(I believe they are already there) in the Whitehouse if Obama or Clinton are elected. I do not know enough about McCain to say whether or not I will vote for him. However, ANYONE who would support the slaughter of the unborn does not deserve to hold any elected office. People who are truy 'pro-Life' need to speak out and denounce these wicked pro-abortionists for who they really are. Hillary and her husband should be tried and punished for crimes against humanity!

I find it hard to "hate" anyone who wants that job. Notice how awfully old and tired everyone looks after four years at the helm? Of course, there are some people with whom I have serious moral and philisophic differences. Sometimes the market place of ideas starts to sound a bit like a school yard of old, with bullies and cheap shots and all those trappings. That is definitely to be avoided.

Well said, Annie.

Shouldn't it be "BTK" instead of "B2K"?

As in Bind, Torture, Kill.

Dennis Ryder, of Kansas.

Now in Detention.

When I initially looked for "B2K" I got too many music references. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B2K

Terry

My bad, but I think you get the point.

Anyone who willfully supports and PROMOTES the mass killing of children is no different then any other famous mass murders. Killing is killing.

I certainly hate the pro-abortion and pro-gay positions of both the Democratic contenders,but I DON'T "hate" the candidates themselves.It's like my position on the Moscow Patriarchate and it's collaboration with the Soviets.I don't hate the unfortunate churchmen involved,but I do hate the fact that by working with the Soviet state,they may have caused torture and even death to be inflicted on fellow Christians.

Father Al,

I don't support hating anyone. I hate the sin not the sinner. But going back to the original post that started all of this:

Replace the word "her" with Hitler or Stalin and tell me if you still agree with the statement.

I also misspelled the name, so no worries. At leats I have Dyslexia on my side, though at this stage it was that or Mmeory. ( I did rely on memory, but do have Dyslexia.)

Its spelled as follows.

Dennis Rader.

Nevertheless.

Somehow I think that if Barack makes it (God forbid!!) political leaders like Putin and Chavez will chew him up and spit him out.
Choosing between Hillary and Barack is like asking whether you would like to die by beheading or electrocution. Neither! Thank you!!

When Obama has dared to speak about international affairs, he has been foolish. He may have advisors who would be able to manage him. Others may have to guard his wife's tongue too.

Terry

Ray,

What is wrong with the sentence you quote from me? My point is that the talk about Hillary Clinton often goes beyond her pro-abortion views, and sometimes, we engage in hateful speech about her personally.

I think what Fr. Al says above is just right.

Blessings,

Lance

I am worried that it might be just the opposite- that Senator Obama might be just as willing to involve the US in aggressive actions as the current administration.