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Originally Posted by Administrator
What I and others here are stating is that we want the Byzantine Liturgy, celebrated correctly and with texts and music that are both correct and respect what we have memorized after praying them for 40 years. We hold up as examples equally both our Ruthenian recension liturgical books and the praxis of our own parishes that had full and vibrant liturgical lives and parishes from both the Orthodox and other Greek Catholic Churches (which shows that the Byzantine Liturgy works!). Many of us have spent much of our adult lives working towards this. We now find that we are denied a correct celebration of the Divine Liturgy. So, so many of us have been spiritually hurt for no reason whatsoever. One expects to suffer greatly for Christ. One does not expect one's Church to be the author of this great suffering.

Please consider the discussions here in light of the following:

Quote
Inaestimabile Donum approved by Pope John Paul II on 17 April 1980:
"The faithful have a right to a true Liturgy, which means the Liturgy desired and laid down by the Church, which has in fact indicated where adaptations may be made as called for by pastoral requirements in different places or by different groups of people. Undue experimentation, changes and creativity bewilder the faithful."
The way forward is for the bishops to rescind the Revised Divine Liturgy and to promulgate the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy, with texts and music that respect what has been memorized over lifetimes of praying it. Establish a �minimum� (i.e., the shortest form allowed) and slowly raise the parish celebration over a decade by education, example, and encouragement. I continue to fail to understand the opposition by some (especially our bishops) to our own Liturgy.

Dear Administrator;

Your sentiments exactly mirror the sentiments of not a few Roman Catholics (including myself) regarding the liturgy. At least, you guys are fighting for the 1941 Recension, which is a full and faithful recension of the Divine Liturgy. As for us, we are stuck with a choice between the 1962 and 1970 Missals, and in case you aren't aware, even traditionalist liturgists are critical of the 1961-1962 Roman books because it is already a half-reformed liturgy, with its truncated Holy Week, truncated Communion Rite, etc.

No one is calling current Greek Catholic practice (especially in the BCC) as perfect; but it certainly is superior to the practice in most Roman Catholic parishes today!

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Originally Posted by Recluse
Originally Posted by Paul B
As I seem to remember it there were two or three vocal people who were very vociferous in their objections and very obviously lost their peace over the translation and music changes. I believe that I stated that if they were that upset then it may be better for them to leave (rather than become bitter). It wasn't coldhearted as you make it sound.
I believe there were more than two or three, but I was one of those who certainly lost their peace when the reformed Liturgy was forced onto the Church. I had to leave(to be fair there were doctrinal reasons also).

But I was bitter and I could not attend services in that state of mind. So you were correct. I have found great peace in the Holy Orthodox Church. smile

Recluse,

I'm glad you have found peace. They rest of us who remain shall have to stand steadfast in defense of true Byzantine Orthodoxy.

Ung

Last edited by Ung-Certez; 02/28/08 05:09 PM.
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Originally Posted by Ung-Certez
Recluse,

They rest of us who remain shall have to stand steadfast in defense of true Byzantine Orthodoxy.
I am confused? Are you insinuating that the Holy Orthodox Church is not "true Byzantine Orthodoxy"?

Or perhaps you are saying that you will continue to fight against the reform and for the Ruthenian recension.

I hope it is option two.

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.. fightimg for true Orthodoxy within the "Sui Juris Metropolitan Byzantine Church of America" (aka the Ruthenian Metropolia).

Ung


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Just wondering if anyone noticed...at the Metropolitan Cantor Institute site, there is a note that says they will be putting music on the site first, before publishing any, to get feedback and comments from cantors... IF that is what I read, then I believe it is a step in the right direction...

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Quote
which shows that the Byzantine Liturgy works!

Admin,

Here is a thought. We all realize that the majority of the people who go to church are from the "Greatest Generation." With that said what Liturgy, Religious Instructions, and Values were they taught? Whatever it was it seemed to work.

Counter this with their offspring and their grandchildren's generation. What Liturgy, Religious Instruction, and Values were they taught and are still learning. Whatever it is, it doesn't seem to be working.

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C. I. X.

I wonder if it is what they were exposed to rather what they were not exposed to; television. Unless you are a black Baptist who goes to church?

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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
The Eparchy of Van Nuys website lists 19 parishes. 3 have Vespers, 1 has Vesperal Liturgy.

St. Stephen Pro-cathedral, Phoenix, AZ: Vesperal Liturgy
St. Thomas, Gilbert, AZ: Vespers
Holy Angels, San Diego, CA: Vespers
Our Lady of Pepetual Help, Albuquerque, NM: Vespers and Matins

The list is clearly incomplete. St. Gabriel has weekly Vesperal Liturgy on Saturday, and Matins on first and third Sundays.

hawk

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Originally Posted by dochawk
Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
The Eparchy of Van Nuys website lists 19 parishes. 3 have Vespers, 1 has Vesperal Liturgy.

St. Stephen Pro-cathedral, Phoenix, AZ: Vesperal Liturgy
St. Thomas, Gilbert, AZ: Vespers
Holy Angels, San Diego, CA: Vespers
Our Lady of Pepetual Help, Albuquerque, NM: Vespers and Matins

The list is clearly incomplete. St. Gabriel has weekly Vesperal Liturgy on Saturday, and Matins on first and third Sundays.

hawk

St. Basil the Great Byzantine Catholic Parish in Los Gatos, California has the following:

Matins on Sundays and some weekdays;
Vespers on certain days
Third and / or Sixth Hour on certain weekdays;
Pre-Sanctified Liturgy on Fridays of Great Lent

Seems like a wonderful parish of the Eparchy of Van Nuys. I have a Filipino-American friend who attends Divine Liturgy and Vespers there regularly.

http://www.stbasil.org/index.html

Many videos of Vespers and Divine Liturgy can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/katolikogroup

(From page 11 of the total video list, onwards)

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We can also add this parish:

http://www.stjohnchrysostom.org/

Daily Matins and Vespers, Great Canon of St. Andrew, Presanctified Liturgy, Akathists, etc.

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Originally Posted by asianpilgrim
We can also add this parish:

http://www.stjohnchrysostom.org/

Daily Matins and Vespers, Great Canon of St. Andrew, Presanctified Liturgy, Akathists, etc.

Rosary? wink

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Originally Posted by Etnick
Originally Posted by asianpilgrim
We can also add this parish:

http://www.stjohnchrysostom.org/

Daily Matins and Vespers, Great Canon of St. Andrew, Presanctified Liturgy, Akathists, etc.

Rosary? wink

Well, yes, but at least they have the full cycle of daily services!

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Originally Posted by Etnick
Originally Posted by asianpilgrim
We can also add this parish:

http://www.stjohnchrysostom.org/

Daily Matins and Vespers, Great Canon of St. Andrew, Presanctified Liturgy, Akathists, etc.

Rosary? wink

And if they did?

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Originally Posted by A Simple Sinner
Originally Posted by Etnick
Originally Posted by asianpilgrim
We can also add this parish:

http://www.stjohnchrysostom.org/

Daily Matins and Vespers, Great Canon of St. Andrew, Presanctified Liturgy, Akathists, etc.

Rosary? wink

And if they did?

whistle whistle

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Very wise.

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