www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Lost Respect For The Pope

Before Thursday I couldn't say enough good things about the Holy Father. However, after this event: Pelosi takes Communion at papal Mass [thehill.com] I think I lost respect for the Pope.

Either words mean something Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger [priestsforlife.org] or they don't.

This Pope seems to say one thing: However, he allows something else to happen
What do you think?

Ray,

I rather doubt that His Holiness or many of the clergy present know Nancy Pelosi by sight. I also think that we tread dangerous ground when we presume to know the state of anyone's soul at any given moment in time.

Many years,

Neil

Dear Ray;

Where one cannot excuse the action, at least excuse the intention.

The Pope did not give Communion to Nancy Pelosi. So there isn't even any bad action to speak of here. The fault lies in the priest who gave Communion to Nancy Pelosi, IF that priest knew who Pelosi was at all. Even then, this happened in DC, where the Cardinals have been markedly reluctant to bar pro-abortion politicians from Holy Communion.

I think that if you have lost respect for Pope Benedict you are
not a person for whose opinions I have any regard.

Edmac

You might not be aware but this stunt has been planned weeks if not months in advance: Abortion-rights lawmakers to receive Communion [news.yahoo.com] also Pro-Abortion Pelosi, Kerry Plan to Take Communion at Papal Mass [newsbusters.org]

Also, it wasn't just Nancy Pelosi but John Kerry: Abortion-rights supporters Kerry, Pelosi take communion at papal Mass [news.muckety.com]

It is difficult for me to believe that the Bishops and the Pope himself didn't realize the murdering "lawmakers" were going to attempt to received Holy Communion.

Now, they are making a big public news event out of it. Raymond Arroyo on EWTN has made it clear that nothing goes unplanned in regards to Papal trips.

I agree.

And there is a practical dimension, a political dimension, to the life of the Church; and H.H. Benedict is no fool about things like that.

And then, there is also the example of Christ who reached out to all.

Be well.

-- John

Neil,


We aren't talking about just Nancy P. but John Kerry and other "lawmakers". John K. almost won the Presidency. While it is possible that some person distributing Holy Communion might not recognize him I find that argument unlikely.


So, what you are saying is that we should never deny anyone Holy Communion?

Ray, I don't think that is the issue. Instead, I think we have to be really careful about excommunicating people. If someone comes into the church in order to protest the Church's teachings, no communion. If someone comes in humility, give them communion. Otherwise, we will need to interrogate everyone in the communion line. And in addition to asking politicans about their positions, we will need to ask everyone else about their lives too: "Did you get drunk, sleep with a mistress and neglect your family last night?" Etc.

-- John

I understand your position and believe it has merit. What should the Pope do if Hitler stood in line to receive communion?

If one partakes of Holy Communion in a state of grave sin, one is doing harm to him or herself. Don't blame those who have to administer it....

" Loving Master, Lord Jesus Christ, my God, do not let these Holy Things be to my condemnation because of my unworthiness, but rather for purification and sanctification of my soul and body, and as a pledge of the life and kingdom to come. For it is good for me to cleave to God, and to place the hope of my salvation in the Lord..."

Alice,

So, what you are suggesting is that everyone can receive communion. Is this correct?

I am assuming that you are making a distinction between Catholics and Non-Catholics. Non-Catholics can�t receive Communion because they haven�t been instructed in the faith.

Am I understanding your position correctly?

RAY:

Christ is Risen!! Indeed He is Risen!!
Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!

I don't know what else you jmay have heard about this event, but the TV news I had relating to this was that both Kerry and Pelosi went to Communion lines far away from the limelight. I took that to mean that they gone to some line far from the main event just so they could say they'd done it but not be in a position to be rebuked or refused.

You also have to realize that some priest might have communed either or both simply because of his mistaken idea that "conscience" trumps evrything including doctrine and instructions from his superiors on such matters.

I have to agree with Alice. The act of receiving Our Lord is no matter of simply going through the motions at some isolated event in this life. It has eternal consequences that the average Catholic has no clue about due to the poor level of catechesis done in this country since about 1965. If you wonder why that is, you ought to listen to the readings for the Sunday of Corpus Christi: the epistle from St. paul admonishing us to "examine (ourselves) . . ." is truncated so that the second portion about receiving condemnation to oneself is omitted. With that kind of "gloss over," I wonder how many people have not caught the idea that they don't need to confess or correct their lives. It seems to me to point at the general lack of respect and reverence that our Orthodox brethren are scandalized at when they come to our weddings and funerals to witness this sort of thing.

In Christ,

BOB

I am not saying that, and I believe that you know that, and that you are just being argumentative with me for argument's sake because you are upset. I don't think that any of this reflects badly on the Pope, as he has given ample autonomy to his Bishops in administering to their flocks.

I am in agreement with John/Harmon's excellent post...



In your church, from what I have experienced and seen in having had my daughter in a small private RC high school, and having been an attendee at many Masses for the girls, it is a customary practice for EVERYONE to receive Holy Communion, and trust me, a good majority of those teens probably should not have. The only persons who did NOT receive were the few Orthodox students and parents and we felt like odd ducks. Therefore, the blame is not on those young people, or on any other persons, politicians, etc., but, as Bob/Theophan said: on those who have not catechised the people properly.

I do not see the Sacrement of Confession/Reconciliation as popular and as regularly practiced among the Roman Catholics as it was in those pre-Vatican II days of my youth--something which was a source of great admiration for my very young mind.

Before you think that I am being unduly harsh on the modern RC church, I will add that this has been an abuse in the Greek Orthodox Church of America for many years too. In my parish, which may be an exception, my priest advocates frequent communion, but in a state of preparation by confession. On many occasion, he has announced, before the reception of Holy Communion, that those who draw near should be fully prepared by confession and fasting. His mission to revive the practice of confession in our particular jurisdiction has not gone without attack. May God bless him for his brave and orthodox stand..

When religious leaders make this announcement before Holy Communion, when they insist on the sacrament of confession as a prerequisite for partaking of the Eucharist, and when they stop the practice in your church of *everyone* receiving Holy Communion at *every* Mass, whether or not they are prepared by the sacrament of reconciliation, THEN this conversation will have merit.

In my humble opinion, putting trust in the individual conscience of your flock is a dangerous thing in a world where all sin, behaviour and morality has become blurred and relative.

In Christ,
Alice, Moderator

Perhaps the problem lies in the directive of the local bishop...It is a known fact that bishops have different opinions about how this should be handled. This article explains Bishop Wuerl's position: (Bishop of Washington, D.C. where the Mass was held)

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07022/755820-84.stm

Christ Is Risen!

Alice,

No, I don't know your position and I am not being argumentative (at least I hope I am not coming across as being argumentative). I believe this is a worthy topic and one in which every Catholic should participate (remember the Lay People in the RCC are the majority who distribute Holy Communion � Clergy are the minority).

Therefore, I think this is a discussion in which the whole Church should get involved.

Back to the Holy Father and the Papal Mass, Congressional leaders must certainly had their visit announced way a head of time. The secret service and the Vatican I assume worked closely to ensure the event went smoothly. What I can�t believe considering the planning and details of this event is that the Holy Father didn�t know John Kerry and Nancy P. were going to receive Communion. With that in mind, I don�t think we can just easily assume that they received Communion in ignorance. However, I am leaving that possibility open but think it is highly unlikely.

Off topic: I believe it is permissible to make eye catching statements as topic headings (within reason).

With that said, I did state in my opening post:

Therefore, I want to make it clear that I have not made up my mind on this yet. I do wish to continue this topic since I think its very important and worthy of discussion.