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May I make a correction to my previous post. When I first learned of Holy Transfiguration Monastery, they were with the ROCOR. When I was corresponding with this monk they were HOCNA.

Bill

I must say in my opinion it sounds like you never had a genuine intrest in Orthodoxy in the first place. Judgeing a church based on Individuals personel faults and flaws is not a good reason what so ever for abbandoning the pursuite of truth.

In Christ
Nektarios

All this discussion about who is orthodox or catholic, who is more orthodox than who, etc. leads me to a different conclusion from the Psalms. "Put not your trust in princes, and sons of men, in whom there is no salvation. When his breath departs, he descends to the earth, and all his plans perish." (I hope I got that right.

I have found that it is much easier to work on my personal relationship with God when I don't rely on others to live up to my own personal expectations.

And there is also a need to be pragmatic when situations become unworkable. Either stop the work where you are if it contributes to perceived conflict, and just tag along, or find a parish to work in that better teaches your beliefs. You can also continue your work on your own, as in "The Way of the Pilgrim".

I don't see this as relativist thinking, by the way. For myself, I see orthodoxy/catholicism as one and the same, with various emphasises that can be made individually to help you get to where you need to be, closer to God all the time. My personal journey led me to the Ruthenians and away from the more ethnic OCA, but I still have ethnic Orthodox friends- and I also have Episcopalian friends, Roman Catholic friends, etc. all of whom I pray for, and ask prayers from, because I don't believe that sincere prayers go unanswered.

I doubt that personal spiritual growth comes easily to those who claim they are the sole repository of truth. It more often means that they are self-righteous. Outside of my church, I don't know what God does when others die who aren't part of it, and neither does anyone else.

Of late, I've had to sideline my own church activities for the sake of caring for my sick father out of state, but my personal devotional life continues, with or without immediate parish activities. That seems to me to make the difference between what is true and what isn't- being able to continue, regardless of your personal situation. Sometimes you find yourself in the right church, but the wrong pew.

Jim,
a Byzantine Catholic

Dear Nektarios,
My, My, as Iconophile wrote earlier, "The zeal of youth". Whether or not I have or had a genuine interest in Orthodoxy is irrelevant. PLEASE re-read Alice's post.
Your love for your faith is commendable, BUT your approach at trying to convince others is lacking. You seem to thrive on being confrontational.

Dear Nektarios,
The literature that was sent to me was not only this one monk's personal beliefs. It was clippings and snippets from various sources as to why HOCNA and the "True Orthodox Church" is right and the rest of Orthodoxy and even more so the Roman Catholic Church is wrong.
It was blatant propaganda that labelled the GOA, OCA,the Antiochian Church and others as being heretics. I wrote of the wonderful witness to Orthodoxy that we have here in Pittsburgh in the numerous and various Churches and jurisdictions that are represented here. I singled out Pittsburgh's Bishop Maximos of the GOA, a devout and holy man,(MANY YEARS), as being one examplar to such witness. HOCNA's reply was something like,"Yeah, nice guy, know him well, but He's not Orthodox", upper or lower case "O".
I only wish I still had those materials, but it all hit the trash where it belongs.

Dear Bill,

Thank you so much for your positive words. I assure you that what I say comes from the heart. However, I do not think that Nektarios will heed my words, as I have never been responded to, and I am probably considered a 'heretic' by him.

I have recently found out that Nektarios also posts on www.euphrosynoscafe.com [euphrosynoscafe.com] so I have lurked over there recently from time to time. Nektarios is a very different person over there. He feels comfortable there and is polite and respectful....all in all, VERY different from the confrontational and often obnoxious young man we see here. My suspicion is that he has been told by a spiritual mentor/or even has decided himself, to NOT discourse with the 'heretics', but to convert them!!! (Kyrie Eleison)

I humbly suggest that Nektarios remain in the comfortable niche he has found on the other website, and enjoy learning about his new faith, as I have witnessed him doing there. I also suggest, with love but parental firmness, that he STOP coming here to scandalize and offend his former Byzantine Catholic brethren as well as the Orthodox and Latin Catholic persons of good will and charity that post here.

Enough really is enough.

May God forgive those (whether they, and especially, if they are priests) who instill hatred into the loving hearts of young persons, reducing holy and ancient CHRISTIAN Orthodoxy into nothing more than a cult of intolerance.

In Christ,
Alice

P.S. Funny comment about Met. Maximos of Pittsburgh not being Orthodox! HOCNA is the one that is uncanonical and schismatic and not part of canonical Orthodoxy! LOL!

Glory to Jesus Christ!

In the book, Patmos: A Place of Healing for the Soul, the writer Peter France, not yet then Orthodox, but investigating Orthodoxy from an agnostic point of view, describes his conversation with an Orthodox monk. In it, he asked the monk what he would do if a Western sceptic, much like himself, came to him with all the classical, rationalist objections against belief in God and Christianity in particular. After verbally bombarding the monk, Mr. France asked what he would have to say about all of this. "I would not say anything," replied the monk, "I would live in peace with him as a brother. And I would love him."

Arturo

No Alice I do not consider you a Heretic you are Greek Orthodox (GOA). I am antiochian Orthodox just very tradtional in my Orthodoxy.

In Christ
Nektarios

In my Previous post I wrote:
The literature sent to me "was blatant propaganda that labelled the GOA,OCA,the Antiochian Church and others as being heretics".
I should have wrote "as being in apostasy and schism". "Heretics" is too strong, and because I no longer have the literature, I can't substantiate it was used. I apologize and ask forgiveness. The remainder of the post I stand by.

Dear Bill,

I think that your original recollection was probably correct. A certain controversial internet poster from HOCNA once came on an Orthodox website and called us all 'heretics'.

As you can see, I am taking that comment with a grain of salt.

With love in Christ,
Alice

I call that

"My, Myself and I Orthodoxy"

In Christ
Nektarios

Dear Nektarios,

Can you please refrain from insults?

Can you please speak as lovingly and charitably to me and the others here, as you do to our brethren on Monachos.net and Euphrosynoscafe.com?

As for you not knowing that I am the translator of the book we discussed, please reread my post on this thread from 5/25. Thank you.

As for you still questioning the validity of St. Nektarios using the phrase 'sister churches' even when I gave you the original Greek, all I can say is that you have insulted the professional integrity of the pious author (who I had the honor of meeting, may God bless his soul which has departed), and my husband and myself...(not to mention the publishers and monasteries, convents and bookstores which sell it).

In Christ,
Alice

I dont think you got it the first time so I will tell you again. I LOVED THE BOOK! Why do you think I speant money on it in the first place?

I didnt insult no one. Bill was talking about HOCNA, and the material they sent him which said that all "world Orthodoxy" are heretics. I call HOCNA type groups "Me, Myself and I, Orthodoxy" Since no one but them is Orthodox. :rolleyes:
If you are HOCNA and offened then I shall apologize but I dont believe you are, so please stop looking so far into my comments.

As for St. Nektarios calling the RCC "Sister Churches" I know its not in our present day context. I was just wondering about it.


In Christ
Nektarios

Dear Nektarios,

If you start addressing us by our names, we will know whose post you are responding to!

I thought that you were responding to my post to Bill...I believe that is the sequence one might normally assume when a post is not specifically addressed to anyone in particular.

In Christ,
Alice

Nektarios,
I pray that you will truly hear Christ, and change your thinking. The words you write are not beneficial to any hopes of re-unification.