www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Greece holds first Gay Weddings

Michael Thoma is right. When one is upset, one is not going to start qualifying his remark by being politically correct and sensitive...

I understand such comments to be about homosexuals practicing the immoral acts of homosexuality. (As such, I see nothing incorrect about his comments...Abnormal sexual acts, whether practiced by homo *or* heterosexuals are considered 'deadly/grave/mortal' sins in the Orthodox canons).

After all, it is the *practicing* homosexuals who are the ones who are getting married and who are vocal, is it not?...

I would assume that those who are quietly battling it as a cross are not pushing the so called 'homosexual agenda', and that therefore, they are not in the context of the Priest's comments.

The so called 'homosexual agenda' which makes such behaviour acceptable and even desirable can therefore be considered a 'curse' upon the moral codes of Judeo/Christian, and even Islamic based society.

Orthodox clerics in Russia and in Greece are outraged by the 'in your face' homosexual trend of the times, and they do not care to be 'careful and politically correct'.

I am sure that the outspoken and outraged St. John the Baptist, who had his head put on a platter due to his brave outbursts against sexual immorality, would have concurred and given such priests his blessing.

Alice

Perhaps.. but, His Imperial Majesty, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, King of Kings of Ethiopia and Elect of God Haile Selassie I, was the last to truly fit the bill.. although some claim His Majesty's record on human rights was far from divine.

Then again, some of the czars (or popes, just to give equal billing) weren't all that heavenly either.

Strictly speaking, Orthodoxy does not "allow" divorce (and yes, I know that there are some jurisdictions that purport to 'grant divorces'); rather she responds to such a grievous situation with both economia and synkatavasis. This is, at most, toleration, not permission.

Should the Tsar have been involved in "granting divorces"? Of course not, particularly since he was in some sense "head" of the Russian Orthodox Church. However, that brings us up against the same anomaly in another form: we have come to assume (or take for granted) that the State can do what the Church cannot - such as "grant divorces", and defenders of the idea that in a Christian State Christian marriage should at least be normative has become utterly Politically Incorrect.

Divorce is only the thin end of the wedge. The sort of phenomenon that began this thread is a logical consequence; so is polygamy. Next comes . . . well, I don't know, but perhaps "animal husbandry". And we're back to the horse and the cow.

Fr. Serge

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As Fr Serge said: "Divorce is only the thin end of the wedge. The sort of phenomenon that began this thread is a logical consequence; so is polygamy."

Fr David Straut

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What is it that many single Christian men fear so greatly?
They fear falling into temptation because they do not have a mate who can fulfill their desires.
They fear being alone in the world because there is none who shares all the things that they hold most dear.

What is it some married Christian men fear so greatly?
They fear falling into temptation because they do not have a mate who can fulfill their desires.
They fear being alone in the world because there is none who shares all the things that they hold most dear.

Both these men fear the same thing.
- Loneliness and unsatisfied desires.

Both these men have the same lacking.
- A woman who can satisfy their desires and need for companionship.

Both these men are at risk of falling into temptation.
- The temptation of extramarital relations.

What is the solution? For both men the solution is to take sufficient wives to prevent loneliness and unsatisfied desires from leading them into temptation. Paul stated, "It is better to marry than to burn." Paul did not qualify this statement by saying that it applied only to single men.

Brought to you by the Makers of Sola Scriptura.

Fr David Straut

Hello from Greece, where we were sitting outdoors at a cafe in the center of Athens today, when we were suddenly surprised by a 'gay parade'. Fortunately, there was not much that was offensive in this particular one, and it was relatively small, but I was not particularly amused by it.

The *only* thing I did enjoy about it was that a pack of stray dogs from the area (they have all been neutered and collared, but animal rights activists did not allow the government to round them up to euthanize when it was proposed before the 2004 Olympics) playfully got infront of the parade when they saw all the people coming, and seemed to be the parades's 'Grand Marshalls'...LOL!

Alice

Hello, sister Alice, and may God bless you and your family. Have a fine and fruitful stay in Greece!

I know someone who believes in this. He actually says that only Bishops have to have one wife, but other Christian men can have many ("the bishop must be the husband of one wife"- St. Paul).

As Fr. David suggests, this is what you get when you use the Bible alone, apart from Holy Tradition.

But it is also points to the simple fact that in our era, no one denies their passions any more. To fight one's passions is considered neurotic. This is also one of the reasons why homosexual behavior is no longer censured in our culture. The person with homosexual tendencies is not in sin for having them, but he or she must wage spiritual warfare against the passions, just like all of us must do.

Amen, Sister!

Not everyone has studied linguistics, and even then, when one is tired, honest mistakes are made. None of us are perfect.

One is Holy, One is the Lord Jesus Christ.

And it's actually a very short step.

Years ago, confronted with a new legal search engine, I wanted a simple search that would only give a handful of results--so I entered polygamy, expecting to find the rare prosecution being appealed.

What I found was law review articles (scholarly legal articles) from journals at BYU suggesting the restoration of polygamy as the solution to the work-family dilemma. All were written by women!

A few years ago, I did it again, getting ready for a class. Now it was coming up with appellate briefs. One of the current legal arguments against gay marriage is that for the same reasons, polygamy would have to be allowed. I laughed at first--but they're right: the argument that gay marriage must be committed is that the state cannot mandate that the parties be those it selects. There is no fundamental difference between mandating the gender of the parties and mandating the number.



hawk, esq.