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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: Apr 2003
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This past summer I was a delegate at the Patriarchal Sobor in Lviv. A question came up about a new name for our church since the Roman Catholics took our title. NOt only for this reason but for the reason of an officail name when the Patriarchate is officialy recognized.
Greek Catholic is a name made up by ruler of Austro Hungary Maria Teresa in order to decifer each church.
Heres part of the list:
UKRAINAIN GREEK CATHOLIC CHURCH
KYIVAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
UKRAINAIN ORTHODOX CATHOLIC CHURCH
UKRAINAIN CATHOLIC ORTHODOX CHURCH
KYIVAN COC or OCC
UKRAINIAN CATHOLIC CHURCH - KYIV PATRIARCHATE
UKRAINAIN ORTHODOX CHURCH- CATHOLIC PATRIARCHATE
Thats most of it. Which one would you pick or which would be another good name?
anyway, this was interesting
ukipatr
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Christ is Risen !!!
Indeed He is risen !!!
I like Kyivan (Orthodox) Catholic Church,with the inclusion of the word "Orthodox" depending on whether the Patriarchate includes a significant part of the Ukrainian Orthodox Churches.
I think the name "Ukrainian" should be used only if the Patriarchate is limited to Ukrainian territory. If the Church is to be worldwide, as I think it should be, the name Kyivan links us to our ecclesial roots without tying us to an exclusive national identity.
John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck
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Byzantine Catholic Church in Ukraine, Patriarchate of Kyiv.
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I agree, KYIVAN should be incorporated.
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How about simply "The Kyivan Church", since I believe the idea is to unite everyone into one Holy Church and into one Patriarchate.
We would have the following:
The Kyivan Church of Canada
The Kyivan Church of the USA
The Kyivan Church of Brazil, etc.
and being so maybe our Rusyn friends would be in favor and join the Patriarchate. How about this:
The Kyivan Church of Karpato-Rus? Sounds really nice, at least to me.
Lauro
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Dear Friends,
A fascinating and ongoing debate!
I believe our Ukie people would generally resist any attempt to remove "Ukrainian" from the title of their Church or to include "Orthodox" in it - unless, of course, there was a union of Catholics and Orthodox there of some sort that would, in the minds of many, then justify the use of the term in this way - as Two Lungs has aptly pointed out.
Foreseeably, the term "Kyivan Patriarchate" would be understood as a stand-alone term.
Historically, "Kyivan-Halych" was the name of the Catholic and Orthodox Metropolias. I don't see "Halych" being dropped without yelling and screaming either.
Also, why are some of our people interested in terms like "Kyivan" to denote the Church, as opposed to the Patriarchate, when other Orthodox Churches are always referred to by nationality e.g. Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox etc.?
There is the Russian Orthodox Church - and everyone knows it has a Patriarchate of Moscow.
Do the Melkites make it a point to emphasize that they have a Patriarchate?
The debate on a name shouldn't be an opportunity to highlight our insecurities . . .
What is at issue here, I believe, is TWO names, one for the Ukie Church and the other for its Patriarchate.
The Ukie Church will be what it is - the Ukrainian Catholic Church.
Patriarch Josef developed the title "Particular Ukrainian Catholic Church, Byzantine-Ukrainian Rite (Greco-Ruthenian)" as we know.
But until some more consciousness-raising among the faithful occurs or else a union of sorts with the Ukie Orthodox, which is to be hoped, "Orthodox" will remain, for the Ukies, a term denoting "Catholics NOT in communion with Rome" at best.
The "Kyivan Patriarchate" would be the title that denotes a less culturally limited idea and rooted in the patriarchal city, just as Moscow etc. is.
The Kyivan Patriarchate could be an ecclesial centre that is rooted in the Ukrainian Church, but that also transcends it and other Churches and ecclesial communities could be in communion with it.
There are, for example, non-Russian groups that are in communion with Moscow, non-Greeks in communion with Constantinople etc.
So, as with other Churches, two names denoting two distinct realities are what we are looking at here.
Alex
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Dear Alex: I would certainly be one to scream if "Halych" was removed when describing our Church.  Yours, kl
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HELLO MY KRYLOS LEADER!
YOU KNOW WHO THIS IS!
IM HERE
I HELP YOU, YOU HELP ME
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XPUCTOC BOCKPEC! Hello my star tenor who blew me off during the paschal Matins. Actually, that's not a big deal - I'm just sorry I didn't get to greet you with the "nad prasnykamy prasnyk" after all the singing we did together over the last year. You folks should have heard this guy chant the stychs" on Alleluia after the Epistle reading at the end of the Jerusalem Matins this past Friday. He took them on a G above middle C. What a way to hear the words "Let God Arise..." for the first time in the liturgical cycle. WOW! Yours, kl
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HEY KL!
The "BOSS" said he needed me to sing tenor with them. I didnt get a chance to tell you. You guys sounded good anyways.
HOW BOUT THIS NAME
Holy Ukrainian Apostolic Church
Hey, we got Saint Andrew as our founder technically!
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How about the Holy Catholic Church of the Kyivan Patriarchate? Don the Irish Ukrainian Catholic
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Kyivan Orthodox Catholic Church works for me. The abbreviation for the Kyivan Catholic Church (KCC) would get confused with the Knights of Columbus, I'm afraid. Dear Ukipatr, do you give singing lessons? I had to solo on Plottyu this year and next year I want to get it completely right!  Christos Voskrese!
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Dear Guys, What's in a name after all? But remember, the name has to be something that is not onerous and something that "our people" can relate to. Mr. Eugene Ivankiw in Sts Volodymyr and Olha parish wrote in ther "VISNYK" a long time ago that "Greek-Catholic" was preferable to just "Catholic" (he wanted "Orthodox Catholic") since "Catholic" can bring confusion as to liturgical heritage etc. But the name of the Patriarchate should have "Kyivan" in it and this can and should be separate from the name of the Church. The Ukes aren't at the de-ethnicization stage just yet . . . But we love the Irish, especially Eamon Devalera!  Alex
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Dear All:
I promised to scream if there was a proposal to remove Halych from the name of our Church. Consider me to have screamed. Kyivo-Galician Orthodox Catholic Church anyone?
Dear ukipatr:
No wonder the singing coming out of the sviatylyshche sounded so good!
Dear Diak:
Don't feel bad about plotiyu. Our parish brought in a ringer this year to sing it and he was at least a quarter step flat on the high note both times.
Yours,
kl
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It's time to modernize! Let's have an American Patriarchate!  The American Multicultural Byzantine Cathodox Church, Patriarchate of Parma!!!! (Known to its future detractors as "that cheesy Church !!!")  :rolleyes:
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