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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: Mar 2003
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Dear Alex:
So we agree as to what is to be done then. We unite and then talk to other Churches as equal to equal. Somehow I knew we'd wind up at the same place.
Now, please be so kind as to tell me how this differs from Fr. Andrij's vision.
Yours,
kl
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Joined: May 2002
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Have just read my own post... Hear no evil, see no evil, smell no evil... ooops!
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Joined: Nov 2001
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Bless me a sinner, Father Mark, If all our Churches can live as sisters, then we can be brothers!  Alex
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Joined: Nov 2001
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Bless me a sinner, Father Mark! Please be careful! My mother used to live in Milan . . .  God bless and happy Thomas' Sunday! You'll have one, doubtless . . . Alex
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The Lord bless you Alex! I very much like your penultimate post!!!
Spasi Khristos -
Fr Mark.
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Alex - do Ukrainians and Ruthenians have the Thomas Bread/artos?
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Bless me a sinner, Father Mark,
Yes, we do!
But, this year, my parish has forbidden us to kiss it - SARS fears, you know.
Are there any particular traditions in this regard practiced by the Old Ritualists?
Alex
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Only that the priest carries it on top of his head during the processions!
Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.
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Bless me a sinner, Father Mark,
And it is my imagination, or is the belt that the Old Ritualist priest wears different in that it is long and goes down to the side to the ground?
What is the significance of the belt even for laity?
I have a belt that I want to give to a friend who is getting ordained an OCA priest on Sunday. Would that be a good idea?
Alex
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The priests poyas has two long strips hanging down on the sides. Like the poyas of the laity it has a fringe or tassel - all very Leviticle. The poyas does, of course, fit into the symbolic armour of salvation, but I think that if we are honest it probably goes back to pre-Christian times. As you know, most societies (if not all) have had some sort of talismanic belt and sacred thread. I'm sure ethnographers could give us a thesis on this!!!
Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.
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The belt as a gift would be a lovely idea!
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Bless me a sinner, Father Mark,
I have a large commentary on the Psalms and a hand Cross for him.
I'll slip the belt down the side of the gift bag . . .
Alex
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We seem to drifting a bit, but that's OK. I'd be worried if we stayed 100% on-topic for 5 pages!  Anyway, we've been talking about "recognition". I seem to recall that there are 20+ Churches in communion with Rome. Has the UGCC asked for recognition of its status as a Patriarchate from all the Catholic Churches? If yes, where are our Sisters? Why are the Melkites, the Maronites, the Ruthenians, etc. quiet? Are they waiting for 'elder sister' Rome to speak first, making it "OK"? If the UGCC has only brought up the patriarchate issue with Rome, why? Antioch is as much a Church as is Rome as is Kyiv, etc. What a wonderful message it would send to the Roman beuracracy if all the "other" Catholic Churches would show some backbone and solidarity. I wonder as I wander... Andrij P.S. As a clarification, I'm not picking specifically on the other Catholic Churches mentioned above - they are just the ones that most easily come to mind. I hope that when the need arises the UGCC lives up to it's position as a sister Church and supports its siblings as needed.
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Dear Andrij, I don't know if we are drifting all that much - giving someone a "belt" is arguabley germane to the topic at hand . That's a very good point - you people in Britain are so intelligent! I know of individual Melkite and other bishops who support the Ukrainian Patriarchate. I don't know if they write letters to Rome urging J2P2 to recognize it. I don't know if anything can be expected from the Ruthenians in this direction, especially since DavidB won't give his recognition for our Patriarchate! Alex
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Dear Andriju:
XPUCTOC BOCKPEC!
Sadly, you are probably right that recognition by Rome will be the act that opens the floodgates of recognition for our Patriarchate.
I can't help but feel that our sister sui juris churches would feel that it is a slap in the face to Rome if they did so - so they refrain.
On the other hand, could you really say that our Synod would have the fortitude to do the same absent Rome's lead?
Yours,
kl
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