www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Handmaidens in the OCA

I don't really see what the issue is with having the handmaidens.

There really is no big issue. No canons are being violated.

There are just one thing that make Orthodox souls uncomfortable. And that is innovation. This is an innovation.

One other thing may make some of us nervous. Is this a very thin edge of a wedge that eventually will wind up with what Western communities are now doing? Catholics have altar girls and women Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist. Anglicans and other Protestants have gone further: first women servers, then deaconesses, followed by priestesses, finally resulting in Sovereign God our Mother/Father. Soon we have a different religion altogether than Christianity.

Fr David Straut

Why does it seem that wherever we Americans worship eventually we have to tinker and change things? What's up with that?!Is this just an American thing?

It's a slippery slope as Fr. David intimates, first we worry about the little girls being left out and change one thing, then we want them to be included in more and tinker with something else, and it never stops.Why can't we first pray to God to show us how to best help the girls to benefit from Divine Liturgy and humbly take it from there. It may actually be best for them not to be directly involved in Divine Liturgy, who knows?!

Yes it is a slippery slope as I said earlier. I'm a new convert to Orthodoxy, and I'm biting my tongue over this whole issue. The majority may say I'm overreacting, but to me, this is almost a reason to leave the parish.

There's a ROCOR parish nearby me that I have yet to visit. They use Slavonic, which I am all for, they have no pews, they have the Ripidia (which my parish refuses to purchase because ("we haven't had them for 90 years",) and I'm very confident they don't have "handmaidens".

I have to agree with Indigo. It must be an "American" thing. The seven or eight girls who are now in the handmaiden "rotation" are there almost every Sunday. Shouldn't that be enough? I wonder if any of them even really want to participate in this. Of course the parents and grandparents are gobbling it all up. Cameras were flashing all over, it's so cute, etc, etc, etc.

I doubt that Christ the Savior Cathedral in Moscow has anything like this going on. Patriarch Alexey would stroke out at the mere thought of it.

I'm trying to become a faithful and devout Orthodox Christian, and this kind of nonsense isn't helping me at all.

Fr. David, that is a good point; but at the same time there is probably very little in the church building, in the liturgy, etc. that at some point wasn't an innovation.

I'm not going to judge anyone else's feelings on this. I don't myself subscribe to the slippery slope argument, or that a change is in itself bad just because it's a change. I would not be troubled by all of this, but if I was I would talk to the girls and their families to see what participating in this does for them, and not just what my perception of the issue is.

I will say in my own parish I think we don't do a very good job of addressing the needs of kids, both in and out of the liturgy. That is for boys and girls. I honestly worry that many of them will leave the church as adults. Many already have.

Etnick,

I don't see how "this kind of nonsense" should have any bearing on your being a faithful and devout Orthodox Christian.

It sounds to me that this just bugs you, is all. The Faith is unaltered by this, and no canons, as we've heard here, have been broken.

Perhaps you should speak with your priest about your concerns before you rush off to ROCOR. Remember, groups like HOCNA found ROCOR to be too liberal, too.

Please forgive me if it seems like I'm singling you out, Etnick, that's not my intention as such. I just think that we need to be careful to understand our present situation before we rush off to another one.

We've seen so many on this forum who have jumped ship from the BCC because of the RDL -- what if they find something in OCA or the Antiochian, or the Greeks, that they don't think is "Eastern" or "Orthodox" enough, do they then move to a new, more "conservative" (i.e. perceived as "more Orthodox") parish? I know the Greek cathedral in Pittsburgh will use an organ now and then -- does that make them apostates? Where does it end?, is my point.

Just a short anecdote: I went on a date with a ROCOR PK girl who told me that Carpatho-Russians were "Orthodox, but not as Orthodox as us [ROCOR]". I spent the rest of the date correcting her, and we didn't make a second date.

Let us not confuse traditions/innovations with Orthodoxy.

If people want to see nonsense and things to shake their faith, try serving on a parish council for a while.

Wow - one of the first things we bought for our little apostolate chapel after getting an iconostasis up were ripidia. Can't imagine being without them.

What is the Ripidia? (The comma splices confuse me.)

Or should this question be asked in another thread?

Or is it even necessary to know? If not, then delete/ignore this post.

The ripidia (Greek, plural; singular: ripidion) are the liturgical fans, e.g., ripidia [istok.net].

They are liturgical 'fans'which are used during the DL

http://www.saintelias.com/ca/servers/index.php

Thanks, in the OCA, we do have liturgical fans.

In fact, I have seen them in the Antiochian Orthodox Church too.

You really know how to cheer a guy up!

I'm a trustee on my parish council. Believe me, I totally agree with you. Some of the issues have almost resulted in the defibrilator being used.

Now you can see the lack of ripidia may be because they're worried about having an Orthodox version of American Gladiators on their hands...