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MarkosC Offline OP
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Hello All,

I am visiting Prague in the fall, and am wondering if there are any Greek Catholic parishes there. If someone has names and addresses I'd be much appreciative.

Thanks,

Markos

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Thje p[arish is St. Clement. I don;t have the address. My pastor when I was a young assistant, Father Basil Lar, had been pastor there right after WWII, I think. Good luck, and when you are in Prague, drink the beer and eat parky!

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Hi MarkosC,

The information you are looking for can be found on this web site:

http://www.exarchat.cz/index_en.php

I.F.

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MarkosC Offline OP
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Thanks I.F. That's what I'm looking for. In fact, I'm in walking distance from the Cathedral.

Markos

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Originally Posted by Jean Francois
Hi MarkosC,

The information you are looking for can be found on this web site:

http://www.exarchat.cz/index_en.php

I.F.

I'm sorry for my statistic-itis, but when I clicked the link above I saw this:

Basic data:

Area of the Czech Republic: 78 866km2
Population: 10 212 496
Greek Catholics in the Czech Republic: 7 675 (plus few thousands of immigrant workers from Slovakia and Ukraine)Dean�s offices: 7
Parishes: 25
Branches: 19
Priests in ministry: 28

The Eastern Catholic statistics for 2007 gives the numbers for Greek Catholics in the Apostolic Exarchate at 177,704. But here, the official website of the Exarchate gives the numbers at 7,675 with a few thousand immigrants.

Something is seriously wrong here.

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Interestingly, the stats for parishes (25) match and those for priests are close enough (36 diocesan and 2 religious per AP; 28 in active ministry per the Exarchate).

Land mass matches the CIA factbook and total population is w/in 8K of same (CIA data on population is updated to a 7/2008 census).

I'm going to go out on a limb here - the 177,704 figure (which AP has used consistently since 2003) closely approximates (within 15K - possibly the immigrants - really emigrants) the number produced by using 7,675 as Catholics per parish.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
Interestingly, the stats for parishes (25) match and those for priests are close enough (36 diocesan and 2 religious per AP; 28 in active ministry per the Exarchate).

Land mass matches the CIA factbook and total population is w/in 8K of same (CIA data on population is updated to a 7/2008 census).

I'm going to go out on a limb here - the 177,704 figure (which AP has used consistently since 2003) closely approximates (within 15K - possibly the immigrants - really emigrants) the number produced by using 7,675 as Catholics per parish.

Many years,

Neil

Thanks for the analysis, Neil, but I'm sure you'll agree that 7,675 per parish is not the same as 7,675 for all the Czech Republic


crazy ???

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I do agree, and the 177K may be high - from 1999 thru 2002, the numbers went from 210K or so gradually down to the 177K - but I am pretty confident that 7.5K aint it.

So, I'm thinking that an amateur statistician in the Chancery tried to make something meaningful to put out there. AP doesn't, as I recollect, publish faithful/parish - but does faithful/priest I think. That number would differ here b/c the Exarchate tried to emphasize priests in ministry - the AP doesn't distinguish. Cannot see what else would explain it.

I looked at the source page to see if there were any coding glitches that might have hidden numbers - none. And I looked at the same page in its Ukrainian and Czech versions - identical.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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There has been a lot of mostly illegal immigration from Ukraine to the Czech Republic in recent years. It is estimated that "several hundred thousand Ukrainian immigrants arrived during the 1990's seeking work" in a country which is not too far from their own, both geographically and linguistically. The vast majority of the Greek Catholics in the Czech Republic today are in fact illegal Ukrainian immigrants.

The history of Ukrainian immigration to Prague dates back at least several hundred years but one of the most important immigrations was that which immediately followed the collapse of the Ukrainian Republic at the end of World War 1. Prague became a center for the Ukrainian Republic government in exile. It further served as a center of Ukrainian intellectual development during the interware period. The Czechs do not distinguish between Rusyns and Ukrainians, whom they consider to be the same people.

The 'high number' may represent the number of illegal immigrants and legal residents in the country. The low number may represent the 'legal resident / immigrant' number only.

I.F.

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Quite honestly, I find the notion of the disparity in numbers as being explained by legal/illegal to be the least convincing explanation.

Of note. however, the website of the Czech Catholic Bishops Conference [cirkev.cz] utilizes precisely the same numbers for the Exarchate.

I compared the AP data (as reported at David Cheney's Catholic Hierarchy site [catholic-hierarchy.org]) for Latin jurisdictions in the Republic with those for the same jurisdictions at the Czech Bishops' Conference site. The results:

Province of Bohemia

Prague 488,000 (AP-2004) 370,000 (CCB) -118,000 -24.2%
Budeweis 748,000 (AP-2006) 237,000 (CCB) -511,000 -68.3%
Hrad Kre 450,000 (AP-2006) 307,000 (CCB) -147,000 -32.7%
Litomerice 276,000 (AP-2004) 162,000 (CCB) -114,000 -41.3%
Plzen 144,775 (AP-2004) 142,000 (CCB) - 3,000 -02.1%

Province of Moravia

Olomuoc 732,000 (AP-2004) 570,000 (CCB) -162,000 -22.1%
Brno 533.000 (AP-2006) 533,000 (CCB) wow!
Ostrava 423,000 (AP-2004) 420,000 (CCB) - 3,000 -00.7%

Apost Ex 177,704 (AP-2004) 7,675 (CCB) -170,000 -95.7%

It is clear that when the Nobel Prize for Statistics is given, the Vatican Statistician can only hope to be a runner-up


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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There is a quote in Ukrainian (Rusyn) on the web sight aludes to the fact that there may be in the Czech Republic "several thousand temporary workers from neighboring Greek Catholic Eparchies in Slovakia and Ukraine".

Those immigrants from Slovakia (Carptho-Ukrainians / Carpatho Rusyns from Eastern Slovakia included) can be open about their presence since they would be EU citizens and would have no reason not to register and are likely counted in the official statistics. Also, there is evidence that Slovaks (Greek Catholics included) tend to emigrate to much further Western parts of Europe where they as a rule assimiliate into the Roman Catholic Church. Not such a bad thing - unless there is a Greek Catholic Church in their area.

The vast majority of Ukrainians (Carpatho Rusyns included) are not EUC citizens and are therefore illegal alliens or have temporary guest worker visas (not easy for most people to get), therefore they can't register and are not counted in offical records.

For more information on the Ukrainian-Rusyn community in the Czech Republic you can view this web site. The organization is represented in the World Congress of Ukrainians, as is the UGCC and UOC, and even some Rusyn organization in Ukraine and Slovakia:

http://www.ukrajinci.cz/index.php?l...;id_data=214&id_porohy=135&view=

A partner web site is this one: 'Karpaty Ukrainjina' (Carpathian Ukraine):

http://www.karpaty.net/ukrajina/ukrajina.htm

'The Ukrainian National Liberation Museum' in Prague, showcases the strong Ukrainian Community in Prague in the interwar years (1920's to 1945):

http://www.ukrajinci.cz/index.php?l=ua&ids=3&idsub=3&id_data=258

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MarkosC Offline OP
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Gents,

When I go do you want me to do a headcount? biggrin

Seriously, since I'll be there during Dormition time I hope the church is full.

Markos

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Hi Markos,

I'm hoping the church is too full for you to count heads. smile smile

I.F.

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Report on the Church....

The Church is St. Kilment's. It's in the Old City part of town, not far at all from the Old Town square. It's a baroque Latin Church which was given to them, and which they basically just stuck an Iconostasis into. Kind of weird, but it would really be wrong to remodel that Church.

Saturday Evening Vespers is at 5, Sunday Orthros at 7AM, and they have something like 4 Divine Liturgies. All in all, it was well worth going to. Other great (Latin) Churches in a 45 minute walk include the Strahov monastery, Our Lady of Tyn and the 11th century Rotunda a little downtown, with Masses Tu. and Thu. evenings

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Parishes in the Prague Exarchate [exarchat.cz]

The above link (in Slovak) will be helpful if you are travelling outside the city. Even if you're not, its interesting.

Fr Deacon Paul


Moderated by  Alice, Father Deacon Ed, theophan 

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