www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall whither the Anglo-Catholics

A quick poll to see what people think will happen to those dismayed by the continued problems in the Anglican Communion.

Future for Tiber swimmers single choice
	personal prelature
	expansion of pastoral provision
	sui iuris status
	each parish taken in as a "normal" parish
	I don't think anyone is going anywhere
Votes accepted starting: 07/11/08 04:34 PM You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

Hopefully, many Anglicans will come home to Orthodoxy and will find a warm welcome in the many Western Rite parishes located throughout the world.

I don't think any number for what matters will be going anywhere. Those that did not leave 30 years ago over women priests will not be going due to women bishops. I use the US as an example that has had women bishops for years and hardly a ripple. When this is finally instituted in 7 years, almost no one will notice I am sure. This threat has been played out repeatedly with little notice anymore.

I think most Anglicans in the UK and US who are upset by these developments probably have left already for new spiritual homes.

Evidence for this is the sharp decline in attendance over several decades. There was a time when the Episcopal Church was referred to as "the Republican Party at prayer"? That was long ago.

But I think there are groups in other Anglican provinces, such as Africa, as well as England's flying Bishops, who may seek some form of collective reunion with Rome. (Western Rite Uniatism?)

I have come to a conclusion from my own observations and will probably make a few enemies over this. In the Episcopal church people constantly complain, but never leave familiar surroundings. In the BCA Church, people leave but continue complaining even though they have no real stake in the church anymore. If anyone wants to leave any church, I believe they should do as God commanded Lot to do - go and don't look back.

There's a lot of rancour and misinformation flying around about this story. Anglican and RC liberals hate these Anglo-Catholics for being Catholic; conservative RCs accuse them of not being Catholic enough.

People who don't understand the situation or know about Anglo-Catholicism in England think these are liturgical Protestants who use the Book of Common Prayer for Communion and believe the Thirty-nine Articles and, because they stayed after women priests came in, accept women priests but not women bishops (which wouldn't make sense), none of which is true!

Most English ACs are Anglo-Papalists, RCs in all but name who use the Roman Rite.

For 15 years they had a church-within-a-church being served by 'flying bishops' (so no women priests) but now that shelter is being taken away.

ACs are about 15 per cent of practising C of E people so if most of them quit it would be major damage to that church.

I think Pope Benedict welcomes these people and their culture as part of his Catholic restoration in his church. (When a cardinal says Rome wants a weekly Tridentine Mass in every Roman Rite parish something's up.) And he may go over the heads of the disloyal liberals including the bishops in his shop to make it happen.

Their culture: immutably English even though it loves to dress in 19th-century Italian finery, a sense of good-natured fun, excellent artistic, musical and liturgical taste and tolerant never of heresy but always of people's failings.

A good number will follow Bishop Andrew Burnham to Rome. He'll be 'demoted' to priest, there'll be conditional ordinations for all the clergy... beyond that I don't know. I'm less optimistic about their keeping their parishes together (but Pope Benedict might pull that off) and even less so about them bringing their buildings with them. (I don't think they'll try to do that.) If the C of E are anything like the Episcopalians, no way, Jos�!

I do think fewer people will leave than threatened, just like 15 years ago.

In America this is over: all that's left of ACism in the Episcopal Church are two dioceses that probably will make a run for it soon and isolated eccentric parishes: ritualist congregationalism.

Which is what will happen to the ACs who stay in the C of E. People who didn't want to leave familiar surroundings.

As to trying to bring their real estate, forget it. The courts in England would not permit it.

Fr. Serge

One wonders if it would be possible to formulate a good legal argument that the CofE had finished "borrowing" those churches and was just returning it!

(I do recall that a handful of parishes "came with" in 1994... No idea how many attempted that... I seriously doubt any landmark or major architectual jewels would be handed over... Those will be turned into mosques before given over to so much "popery" I am sure.)

I do know that there is a court case in Virginia betwwen the Episcopal Diocese and some parishes.

A court ruled in favor of the seceding parishes, sayng that a state law about division of religious organizations overrules the canon law and diocesan structure asserted by the Bishop.

Apparently, some parishes are organized as separate corporations for property ownership.

Certainly some TEC folks have made homes in the 2 dozen missions and parishes in the US. Anyone have any numbers as to how many chapels and parishes are in the UK and who they are with?

Most of the two dozen missions and chapels in the US are made up of former Episcopalians.

Orthodoxy [home.att.net] in the UK is Byzantine Rite, end of story.

Here the one church we had is closed.
My understanding is most of them have already become Catholic.