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Dec 29th, 2019
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1)To seek the Truth, one must ask questions. I think this even applies to the Bible. Surely there has been no one on this planet (other than perhaps the Trinity and the Apostles) that understands everything the Bible says. If you don't understand something, how do you come to understand it? Do you believe everything people tell you if people are subject to misinterpretation, lies, and sin? 2)...something that is NOT spelled out (as in a formula) is subject to interpretation. I think that's just a human limitation. 3)You're right--very true. RE Twain---how many books, art pieces, and songs have been written/influenced by druggies, lunatics, and alcoholics?  It doesn't mean they're good--just out of touch with reality, and original. I don't believe creative = love Although----the Devil quoted Jesus scripture in the desert. Couldn't he have tried something more original?
Last edited by stormshadow; 07/14/08 07:50 PM.
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As usual, Father dan, your comments are thought provoking. I do stand by my comments, but as i said your comments always provoke thought and thank you for that!
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A few things here.
1. I question your premise here: "If every one agreed with every jot and tittle of dogma, there would be no need for free will." Freedom is ultimately linked to truth (As Christ taught, "The Truth will set you free.") Assenting to dogmatic truths, therefore, does not somehow limit my freedom (which is limited by many things anyway...the modern idol of "limitless choices") but rather fulfills it since truth ultimately is a Person, that is the Eternal Word spoken definitively by the Father, and the truth of revelation defines much of the form and content of my relationship with God who is love. It is in this context that truth, particularly revealed truth, finds its salvific meaning. Truth delivers souls from the bondage to sin and death because it is full of divine power and is ultimately what is REAL, unlike the idols of the age which are largely based upon the unreal individual passions and fantasy.
2. That said, problems arise in my opinion when people either REDUCE dogmatic truths simply to formulas or REDUCE the Truth to official dogmas that are definitively taught by the Church. Dogmas have a living reality that the formulas can only approximate, infallibly defined but never fully contained. The proclamation of the Truth of the Gospel is also as much a proclamation of the common life of the Church and her "living tradition," rooted as it is on certain dogmatic anchor points, while possessing the full freedom to grow in its full realization in the life of the faithful.
3. This leads to the notion of great diversity of form and content (without violating the principle of non-contradiction) abiding in great unity - an aspect of the Church's life that is an image of the Holy Trinity. As the Gospel has been inculturated historically, wonderful and diverse expressions of the same saving truths of the faith developed. If anyone doubts the importance of diversity to the mind of God, consider the great diversity of the visible created universe! Yet these diverse expressions of Faith must always adhere to certain well defined dogmatic "roots". Where one cuts oneself off from the roots, one severs a lifeline to saving truth. Father Deacon Daniel: Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!! How well put. Your succinct set of points takes what I commented on to a sharper focus. The exact point that our dissenting culture wants us to ignore is that real freedom is NOT the absence of definitive positions but rather having a frim foundation such as the one provided by Divine Revelation. May God bless you in your service to the People of God. In Christ, BOB
Last edited by theophan; 07/15/08 09:19 PM. Reason: clarification
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1)To seek the Truth, one must ask questions. I think this even applies to the Bible. Surely there has been no one on this planet (other than perhaps the Trinity and the Apostles) that understands everything the Bible says. If you don't understand something, how do you come to understand it? Do you believe everything people tell you if people are subject to misinterpretation, lies, and sin? stormshadow: This is precisely why we have the Church--the Church that jesus promised He would remain with until the end of this age. That is why He sent the Holy Spirit among us and why that same Holy Spirit continues to lead the Church into all Truth (Christ, His Person). Opinions are like sweat socks--everyone has at least two and most of them smell. But the Church is guarded by the Holy Spirit so that she can always be trusted to teach what Christ entrusted to her. How do we know when we hear opinions from one Church leader to another? We look at the constant teaching over time and through all nations--we read the Fathers, we look at the published materials--catechisms, Scripture commentaries--and we look to a trusted spiritual father. The follower of Christ is not on a "rugged individual's" journey. We're in this together. We learn from each other, accept correction in love from each other, and we seek to correct the brother who is in danger of getting too far off the track. If you go with a humble attitude, you can really give your spiritual father a workout. But we seem to ahve an attitude of challenge adopted from our culture of dissent--my term--that betrays an attitude of not wanting to learn but simply to challenge for challenge's sake. In Christ, BOB
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"this is precisely why we have the Church"........well I know that.
There are people certainly more qualified to interpret the Bible than I.
However....even Popes views over the years have indeed, changed. "We look to a trusted spiritual father", but what happens when a following Pope has to apologize for the Church's past actions?
I know I don't apologize unless I make a mistake.
Just food for thought.
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. . . but what happens when a following Pope has to apologize for the Church's past actions? This is exactly my point about taking the long look. Unlike groups that attach their whole faith to the current, charismatic, dynamic leader, the Church takes the whole of its constant teaching as the measure of what the Faith is and how it is taught and interpreted. That being the case, when some teacher gets off into some tangent with Scripture or Tradition, there are always others who call him back to orthodoxy. The pendulum may swing far into some one area or another but over time things have a way of righting themselves. That's why it is so important not to restrict one's reading to the latest fashionable author without balancing with the tried and true. On the other hand it is not spiritually healthy to try to reconstruct the past in the present by digging up all the things one can find when one goes on an "archeological hunt" in areas of the Faith and spirituality. With a good grounding in the Faith, one ought to have some sense when something "clunks" in one's head and just doesn't sound quite right. I posted some things some time ago in Town Hall that are good examples IMHO: "embrace your sin; it's who you are"; "we shouldn't be trying to be good"; or "no one knows what Jesus really said, the Gospels are merely written to teach what the authors wanted their communities to hear." These all "clunked" for me. In Christ, BOB
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