www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Russia And Georgia At War In South Ossetia

I agree, Lawrence. These are indeed sinister times when devout Georgian Orthodox Christians have been victimized and have suffered retaliation as a result of US and Israeli military advisers acting with their mercenaries to invade Georgia in a sick military operation. It is all about oil, just like in Kosovo. See the three news sources below.

Has anyone here read any non-European or non-NATO news sources? After the USA cowardly bombed Kosovo on the holiest day of the year, Pascha 1999, I have little faith in our leadership. It looks like the USA and NATO might be dropping bombs on August 15, the Feast of the Dormition.

We in the West are not getting the news, but check the Russian and Israeli online news sources, especially www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/151211 [israelnationalnews.com]

Israeli news, August 8, 2008
http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358

Israeli news, August 10, 2008
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/151211

http://www.Reuters.com/article/poli...3?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews

Read between the lines – we are going to be at war and the USA is not telling us the truth. Why else would the USA take control of the Georgian ports? This is called military staging. Are NATO and the USA going to bomb Russian Orthodox civilians and churches, just like they did in Kosovo?

Oh, Lord save your people, and bless your inheritance ... grant victory to your Orthodox People over their enemies by the Power of Your Cross.

If Russia, who may currently be in Poti, left the country after they settled the question on the control of South Ossetia, then it's possible that the States wouldn't have to step in if it comes to it. America can't let Georgia fall under the pressure of overwhelming Russian aggression.

Let's hope the question of Russia's presence in Georgia is answered with the assistance of Secretary of State Rice.

Terry

Excellent post Elizabeth Marie ! And I do try to read as many foreign news sources as possible.

I think it's pretty naive at this stage to discount US and Israeli involvement in this tragic confrontation. Georgia's Defense Minister Davit Kezerashvili is a former Israeli citizen, another cabinet minister Temuri Yakobashvili also has strong ties with Israel, and even though he's not in office, John McCain's top foreign advisor, Randy Scheunemann was a paid lobbyist for the Georgian government up until last March.

So what happens next ? Will we in America be told to beat the drum, wave the flag be patriotic and be prepared to stand up to the evil Russian Bear, who hasen't changed, and still want's to conquer the World ? I'm NOT falling for that song and dance ! Where was the call to patriotism, 30 years ago, when American corporations began stabbing the American worker in the back, by moving manufacturing jobs overseas to be done for near slave labor, or 15 yrs ago when other corporations began eliminating jobs in the white collar sector, by importing there replacements from Asia to do the jobs for alot less. How many Presidents, Senators or Congressman objected ? Does any elected official, who will warn us about the so called threat of Russia, believe it's actually more unpatriotic to strip away our Constitutional liberties in the name of the War On Terror, which has us friends with Saudi Arabia and in debt to China ?

Same old Russia ? I really don't think so. I've heard first hand reports of Christian revival taking place in at least parts of the country. On the other hand I wish we were the same old America we once were, and not the global monster were becoming.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080812_georgia_war_a_neocon_election_ploy/

Our role in this can only not be discounted, it's at the heart of it. We're an interventionist state. What you're hearing unfortunately are calls for more intervention, and not a reappraisal of our misguided policy of antagonizing and encircling Russia.

The main reason our response is so hollow is the many levels of hypocrisy in our position.

As far as causes go, I would not be surprised if the pending agreement between Poland and America on the missile defense shield had some to do with Russia's response. http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D92I7QP82&show_article=1

Russia would be sending a strong message to Poland and other former Warsaw states with the push they've made to humiliate Georgia. Gegorian sovereignty is in Russian hands at this moment.

Terry

This is interesting too, I admire the courage of this reporter: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...oadcast-carries-report-bleeding-arm.html

Ten years ago we should have begun dismantling NATO, not increasing it as a way to isolate Russia. It apprears similar to the European approach at the end of WW I to punish Germany -- look what happened!

This also exposes American intelligensia's fear of the European Union and uses NATO as a way to keep a big foot in the door.

So it will be someone else's fault if Russian invades another border country? We forced them into it?

Of course it would be someone else's fault. Russia would be playing into the hands of a super-important lobbyist who works in the center of the universe at Washington D.C..

It was the Georgian army that invaded South Ossetia virtually destroying the city of Tskinvali and killing between 1400 and 2000 civilians. The Russians then drove the Georgians out and conducted strikes against military targets in Georgia, as most countries in the world under similar circumstances would do.

I'm afraid this isn't the Cold War of the 1950's, we in America aren't the guys in the white hats anymore.

More wasted tax dollars to deal with a non threat while real threats continue to grow.

So is Poland wrong to be worried about Russian agression? How about the Ukraine? Notice how most of these border countries are all afraid of Russia. This goes back for centuries.

There is no denying that Georgia started a war and behaved in a shockingly uncivilized manner versus the South Ossetians. This needs to be broadcast more openly in the Western media, which currently treats the Georgian president as a wunderkid who can say no evil and do no wrong.

However, despite the fact that Georgia started the war, Russia's reaction and deep penetration into indisputably Georgian territory cannot but alienate much of world opinion too. And nothing justifies the burning and looting in Gori, which occured under the very noses of Russian tank crews. That too deserves condemnation. And, let's face it: the Russian military has a reputation for extreme brutality due to the events of the past 90 years. Granted that most of that was due to the Soviet (as opposed to the Russian) state, the fact remains that for most people, "Russia" is the successor of the Soviet Union, and its military shares the dark repute of the old Soviet army (not to speak of the Russian Army in Chechnya...). At the very least, Russia should avoid behaving in a way that might only reinforce old stereotypes.

Rightly or wrongly, all this cannot but hurt Russia's desire to be seen once again as a great Orthodox Christian power.

That having been said, I also find George Bush and Condi Rice's posturings to be extremely offensive. Mr. Bush and Ms. Rice have been the world's worst meddlers in the last 8 years, and not just in Iraq. They have been actively and openly meddling in Southeast Asia (especially in my native country, which has suffered silently from a lot of American bullying in the past 8 years), Latin America and the Middle East, and much of this meddling has been frankly and blatantly imperialist in nature. The nerve and hypocrisy of the Bush adminsistration is simply unbelievable: I wonder if Americans realize just how hated the US has become because of "Dubya".

The current US administration has NO CREDIBILITY to be speaking about "respecting sovereignty" when all it does is trample the rights and interests of other nations in the name of its interests.

Furthermore, the Western media's uncritical acceptance of the US government's line is something that I find to be even scarier. It means that smaller countries whose interests are not aligned with US interests will always be crushed and silenced by the US government's propaganda machine. If they can do it to Russia, then how about other countries?

I hope that the next few years will see the mainstream American media lose much of its influence, giving way to a more pluralistic international media that can give equal space to conflicting viewpoints.

I myself wonder where the old USA -- the USA that defended democracy in World War II and that liberated so many nations from fascist tyranny -- has gone.

In war, there are really no victors...

Russia is the Aggressor here, and the facts show that the Russian invasion was planned for at least several months (very likely it was timed to provoke a Georgian response while the world was watching the Olympics). Today Georgia, tomorrow Ukraine, then onto the Baltic States and Poland. Russian intends to rebuild its empire by force and control the energy resources (oil, etc.) coming from central Asia. What America & the West should have done was to accept all these countries that are products of the former Soviet Union into NATO immediately. But Europe does not stand for anything so it was not possible.

Here are several good articles:

Russia Goes Rogue [nypost.com]

After Russia's invasion of Georgia, What now for the West? [telegraph.co.uk]

The Pain Game - A military response to Russia's aggression? [weeklystandard.com] [This article is by Stuart Koehl. Stuart is a fellow Byzantine Catholic and we both worship at the same parish in McLean, VA.]

Stopping Russia Next Time [weeklystandard.com]

It is amazing how so many people have bought the Russian government's account without question. Never forget that Putin was KGB and still operates that way.

asianpilgrim:

Sorry, but this is not true at all. Russia has been meddling in the territory of Georgia since Georgia has achieved its independence. The two provinces that Russia has tried to separate from Georgia are clearly Georgian territory--and the Russians have no one to blame but themselves because they drew the boundaries during the Soviet era-and before during the czarist era. Issuing Russians passports to people in a neighboring country and then claiming that that justifies supporting a separatist movement in that country is not what civilized nations do. The czarist push for warm water ports in the south seems to have come back to the surface in current Russian thinking.

BOB