www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Russia And Georgia At War In South Ossetia

I agree, Lawrence.

Unfortunately the press in the USA and in the UK is not informing us of the truth. One simply cannot trust NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, BBC, or even FOX for that matter.

Witness the events in Bosnia/Kosovo. The USA equipped known Albanian Muslim Terrorists (they called them the good guys then) who raped women and children. However, this was not reported in the news in the USA and in Britain.

Now a simlar situation is occurring with USA involvement by sending military advisors who worked with Israeli military advisors to attack the South.

It bears repeating again, that the politics involve oil. Wherever there is oil, the USA will be involved.

Returning to the Kosovo situation, there is oil in Kosovo underneath the Orthodox Churches, Monasteries, Orthodox villages, and Cemeteries. There is also oil in Iraq, and there is oil in Georgia.

If you read Kosovo Crisis: A Study in Foreign Policy Mismanagement by Vojin Joksimovich, Ph.D., you will gain a better information of the truth which has been suppressed by the U.S. government and the controlled media. Jokismovich is a nuclear physicist who talks about the depleted uranium bombs which the US used. This radioactive material is making the children of Serbia and Kosovo very sick.

There is a monastery in Kosovo which is under continual attack by the Albanian Terrorists. No sooner do they rebuild their wall and the terrorists attack again hoping to drive them off their ancestral property.

Yes, you might consider Kosovo to be off-topic, but the same pattern of U.S. deceit is involved in Georgia as it is Kosovo. Allowing the Albanian insurrectionists to have control of Kosovo is a travesty as these terrorists continue to destroy Orthodox Churches, graveyards, and monasteries.

In news sources which I trust, it relates that thousands of civilians were killed by Georgian solders who were led by U.S. and Israeli advisors and mercenaries. One U.S. soldier was confirmed among the dead, but other sources said that several U.S. bodies were recovered.

Many of those killed by the Georgian-compromised and infiltrated troops were Orthodox Christians. Incidentally, the leaders of Georgia apparently do not care about the Orthodox Christians. The President of Georgia seems to have capitulated to foreign interests. Some Georgians are even calling him a traitor.

For references,

Please check my previous post on page two. There I list three credible news sources: two Israeli sources and Reuters, which far surpasses most U.S. news sources.

Here are some more references on Georgia, Russia, and Israel:

Depleted Uranium used by the US
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2008/08/14/p27748#more27748

Georgia president denies Israel halted military aid due to war
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1011298.html

Georgia's PM asks for rabbi's blessing
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1218446182563

Russia to get disputed J'lem property
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1218446197320

Time to rethink
[http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1214132663714&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Traditional Catholic Patrick Buchanan just wrote an excellent article on the topic, titled "Blowback From Bear-Baiting http://www.antiwar.com/pat/?articleid=13305

When the Soviet Union collapsed, and the Berlin Wall was torndown, and the Warsaw Pact dissolved, what was America's response ? By our clear actions we sent the message to Russia, that "You're still the bad guys, and you always will be"

The diplomatic position of a warm-hearted ally is earned. There was and remains mistrust. Russia will have to prove the pureness you appear to attribute to it. Their current behavior does not help the diplomatic relationship between our two countries.

It no longer matters who started this conflict when Russian tanks continue to inch control of Gegorian territory. That they did not stop at Gegorian borders says more about the aims of the Russian state than all of the arguments all of the pundits can construct.

Terry

Stuart Koehl sent the following as part of an e-mail exchange. Stuart is the author of one of the articles I listed in my previous post. Although the situation is surely complex he does an excellent job of presenting it in a few paragraphs. He has given his permission for me to post this here:

My wife says that the situation in the Caucasus is impossible. There are so many tiny ethnic groups, each wanting independence or autonomy, none capable of forming a viable state. Of course, they all hate each other too, and in the Caucasus, the enemy of my enemy is also my enemy, so they don't cooperate very well.

Apparently, Moscow has been arming, training, and providing support for Abkhazian and Ossetian separatists seeking independence from Georgia. Since 1994, they have been engaged in the ethnic cleansing of Georgians from those regions, with Russian assistance. Russia says it has a "peacekeeping force" in Abkhazia and Ossetia, but their neutrality is, shall we say, dubious?

Anyway, for the last year or so, the Russians have been issuing Russian passports to any Abkhazian and Ossetian who asks for one, thereby making them "Russian citizens". Russia has thus created an artificial "Russian minority" on Georgian soil which is being oppressed by evil Georgians, and this is the casus belli for Russian intervention in Georgia. Note, of course, that the Abkhazian and Ossetian separatists are to Georgia what the Chechens are to Russia. But in Russian eyes, the Chechens are bandits and terrorists, while the Ossetians and Abkhazians are heroic freedom fighters. Double standard, anyone?

There is no doubt that the Russians initiated this war, creating a whole range of intolerable provocations for Georgia. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant of the facts or hopelessly biased. Russia planned this attack many weeks in advance, as witnessed by the front line units they were able to deploy there (and even these are not very good, by the way). Ultimately, Russia seeks to reintegrate Georgia into a new Russian empire, as this will give it a strategic position in the oil-rich Caspian-Caucasus region. Oil and gas are more important weapons for Russia than its tanks and missiles, so this is a way of getting a greater strategic advantage.

Fortunately for us, it's going to backfire on them. The former republics and satellites are onto the game, and Poland did not sign the MOU on missile defense today by accident or happenstance. The key will be what happens next: will NATO offer accelerated membership to Georgia and Ukraine? Will Finland ask to be admitted? I have been told that as soon as Finland asks, Sweden will follow suit. Russia could end up more closely encircled after Georgia than before.

The Chechens are often considered bandits and terrorists by Russians, because a couple years before the 1st Chechen War, the Chechen Moslems ethnically cleansed about 300.000 Russians from the region. Russians were murdered, raped, sold into slavery and had there homes firebombed. There were also 20.000 to 28.000 Armenian Christians living in Grozny, two decades ago, but they too, like the Russians were driven out. When Russia decided to hit back, the World learned a new word "Chechnya". Ironically though, by the time of the 2nd Chechen War, quite a few Chechens were actively siding with the Russians.

Lawrence, you bested me to the Buchanan article...

Pat is usally on target and would have made one heck of a president...

james

Yes, Patrick Buchanan hits the nail on the head.

Unfortunately, few here will even read his excellent article.

His depth of research is far above the rest.

I think this passage points out American arrogance:

Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

I do not understand those who are supporting Russia in this case. No matter what bad deeds the United States has done, does not negate that Russia is wrong in this case. If we are going to permit this, then we may have to look at doing the same thing on Russian territory. With hundreds of ethnic groups in Russia that have substancial populations, the Russian Federation can be ripped apart, just as it is doing to Georgia.

The question is that if we are not willing to support a nations territorial integrity, then no nation's borders will be respected, and a continuous state of war will be part of this new century.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

After reading what the Patriarch of Moscow has stated in this war, and the actions of himself and his Church, I feel that the Russian Orthodox Church is in the process of distroying the Eastern Orthodox Communion.

I hope that the Russian Church moves away from chauvinism, and more towards an attitude that the Georgian Patriarch and Church have adopted.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Dear Yuhannon,

I am not supporting Russia per se or saying that she is without blemish. No, we all are sinners.

However, I am pointing out that the USA with its military advisors who have been working in Georgia with the Israeli advisors knew full well that they were upsetting Russia. Ultimately, the foray into the South by US and Israeli-led Georgia forces led to the killing of civilians by Georgian forces. This was an act of war. Georgia is not innocent and neither is the USA or Israel.

The Georgian President, when the facts are fully known, if they ever are, could be tried for treason for brokering a deal with Israel to supply oil.

So, things are not black and white.

Shlomo Elizabeth Maria


Your point above is like saying Canada would be upset with Mexican military advisors in Minnesota. Minnesota is part of the United States, just as South Ossetia is part of Georgia. Every nation has the right to secure its borders.


Please explain why to the above.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

We already opened that Pandora’s box with Iraq. We further moved that along with the dismemberment of Serbia. It is clear this will seriously destabilize the world and contribute to our own insecurity. While we spend time antagonizing Russia and encircling it, as has been proposed in this thread, Iran will likely grow unabated as a nuclear power and Afghanistan will further devolve back in to its status as a terrorist Disneyland. The expansion of NATO and missile interceptors in Poland don’t make me feel safe, they further convince me of the total failure of our foreign policy; and our misguided course as interventionist state.

We are making the world dangerous for democracy, while at the same time making an enemy of a country with a resurgent Christian foundation while counting Saudi Arabia and Pakistan among our “friends”.


It’s more like this. Imagine a Native American reservation claimed mistreatment at the hands of the United States and declared complete autonomy. Mexico in a gesture of solidarity recognized their autonomy and sent in troops to act as peacekeepers. Russia, having vital economic interests in the area, in particular Mexican oil, sends military advisers and arms to Mexico. It comes to light the Syrians are also selling the Mexicans arms and providing other covert assistance. Russia, fearing for Mexico’s safety, proposes a pact with Mexico, Cuba and Jamaica; that if attacked by anyone all will declare war on the aggressor. Part of the pact includes that stationing of Russian missiles and interceptors on foreign territory. Imagine our reaction.

"And, let's face it: the Russian military has a reputation for extreme brutality due to the events of the past 90 years."

Actually, from all the reading of Imperial Russia I've done, the Russian military has had this reputation for far, far longer than just the last century.

Unbiased and well-informed sources have oft noted that the Russian military has almost always been composed of extreme cruelty/callousness combined with breathtaking stupidity. Not a good combination.

Alexis

We seem to be catching up pretty well in the areas of breathtaking stupidity and cruelty.