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http://www.cnewa.org/cw28-3-pp12-15.htm

It's a wonderful article about the Greek Catholic Community in Greece and it's new Ukrainian and Chaldean members

Dear Remie,

Nice link. Thank you.

While I was living in Europe, I spent a Pascha in Athens, and enjoyed the celebration with this amazing multinational parish community. Their bishop is a remarkable man, and the clergy dedicated.

Elias

Thank you Remie,

For this is an excellent article. It is another example for us, to show that we can work together and respect each other where we are in the Lord. Also, the fact that it reminds us of the Christians in the Middle East. It is very seldom that one thinks, or I guess I don't think about Iraq having a Christian population. So this draws attention to a forgotten people.

Rose

[ 08-10-2002: Message edited by: Rose ]

Father:

As far as I know the seven Greek priests they have come from the latin rite and are all celibate and monastic.
I'd like to know. Did they become byzantine?
How did you find the liturgy? Is it truly Greek?
Do they use the Orrthodox clerical vestments?


Rose:

Iraq has an important christian population, maybe not so extense, but with a lot of influence. Most of them are Kurds, but the christian elite is very arabized. Iraq's Prime Minister, Tarek Aziz, is a chaldean christian.

It is true all of the priests are from the Latin-rite and are celibate, unlike the majority of Orthodox priests.

The Greek Catholics have never been very successful in recruiting vocations from within their own community and they continue to lose communicants to the Orthodox .

They have no monastic communities-in the Orthodox sense-but their religious sisters are true workers within the Vineyard.

Abdur

[ 08-10-2002: Message edited by: traveler ]

Dear friends,
As far as I am living know in Greece and I attend Divine Liturgy at one of the two parishes of the Greek Catholic Exarcate I suppose I can make some interesting remarks:

a)Hieromonk Elias says "Their bishop is a remarkable man, and the clergy dedicated". i agree, father, but I would even say that bishop Anargyros is a holy man, the devote father of all his spiritul sons and daughters. The priest of the Exarchia are men of God, many of them remarkable scholards, plenty of love for the Church of God and the idea of the Union of the Churches.


b)Hieromonk Elias says that the Exarchate is a "amazing multinational parish community"and that is completely true. Rose says that is an example of each other respect. Well that is true for the Byzantine Greek clergy, they opened to Chaldean and Ukranian the doors both of their parish and of thier hearts. They respect their language and liturgical tradition, they oppened schools for their childrem. Unfortunately Chaldeans and Ukranian does not show the same respect. Just an example, the Chaldean priest refuses, against the opinion of the Greek Byzantine bishop, to give holy communion under both sacramental species, forgetting that in Greece even the latin priest give holy communion in this way!!! Ukranian Catholics try to introduce western devotions like the way of the cross in a country, Greece, where the byzantine Church has never suffered this kind of latinization. On Lent fridays the Greek faithful and clergy must way till Chaldeans and Ukranians have finished the Way of the cross to star the Akathist to the Mother of God!!!
c) Remie says that the seven Greek priests have come from the latin rite and are all celibate and monastic. Well, six of them are from Syros or Tinos (Latin rite) and one of them is from Constantinople. Do not forget that the Greek Latin clergy use to study in the Greek College in Rome where only the Byzantine rite is used. Now is serving in Athens a married Rumanian priest and two married deacons, one of them an Irish married to a greek orthodox woman. in the liturgy there is no real difference with the Greek orthodox liturgy, except for the fact that they, like Melkite, do not use spoon for holy communion. Now there is an orthodox church in Athens whre they do the same. And yes, thas truly Greek what you listen there. They use the Orthodox clerical vestments inside the Exarchate.
c) Remie says that Iraq's Prime Minister, Tarek Aziz, is a chaldean christian. Well he used to be but unfortunately someone tell me that he does not believe in God.

d)Abdur says that the Greek Catholics have never been very successful in recruiting vocations from within their own community and that is true. But thats false that they continue to lose communicants to the Orthodox. Abdur says that Greek Catholics have not got
a monastic communities-in the Orthodox sense. Well, I would say that the nuns of the Panmakaristos Theotokos are quite byzantines.They are true workers within the Vineyard (hospitals, schools, old people), as you say, but have the byzantine liturgical player in the center of their lives. Even their vestments are quite similar to those of the orthodox nuns.

Thank you very much for your interest for the Byzantine Catholic Exarchate. Bishop Anargyros will be very glad to know about your love and interest for us. Next time I will go to he Byzantine Catholic parish I will light a candle for you all.
I Agia Trias na ine mazi sas.
Francisco

"Ukranian Catholics try to introduce western devotions like the way of the cross ... On Lent fridays the Greek faithful and clergy must way till Chaldeans and Ukranians have finished the Way of the cross to star the Akathist to the Mother of God!!!"

Ho, hum! Some never give up trying.

[ 09-18-2002: Message edited by: Joe T ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Francisco:
[QB]Dear friends,
As far as I am living know in Greece and I attend Divine Liturgy at one of the two parishes of the Greek Catholic Exarcate I suppose I can make some interesting remarks:

Francisco:

I would like more information about the Greek Catholic Church. Please contact me at cildara@excite.com whenever you have a chance.

With Thanks,

Michael

Yassoo Kyrie Francisco!

Efharisto for your interesting post.

I have always known that the Latin Catholic--native born--community of Greece has suffered from an identity crisis that has long made them "suspect" in the minds of "pure" Greeks. However, being a minority group and the descendents of a culture foreign to the pure Greek culture--and therefore, to some pariahs-- it is easy to sympathize with their desire to cling to their French and Italian heritage. Sadly, they also suffer from their own type of bigotry:Latin Catholicism is pure Catholicism. That form of blind attachment to spiritual bigotry certainly doesn't serve the ecumenical cause.

Two member families of my aunt's Orthodox parish are former Greek Catholics and loyal Hellenes.

Abdur

BTW: Is Father Amato--a nice Italian name -- still serving a Byzantine parish?

Is there still a Catholic parish in Ioannina (Jannina),Epirus?

[ 09-18-2002: Message edited by: traveler ]

Dear Friends,

Yes, that is not nice for the Ukrainian Catholics to try and impose the Stations of the Cross.

But Ukrainian Orthodox in western Ukraine do them as well.

My Orthodox Stations of the Cross pamphlet says that the writer, an Orthodox priest, will not rest until all the Orthodox have accepted that devotion.

But the Greek Orthodox monks are well disposed toward the memory of Patriarch Slipyj.

While there on my honeymoon, in Greece I mean, I met an Athonite monk whose hand I reverenced.

He asked me who I was and my religion. I wanted to be ecumenical and then put my foot in it (yes, I know that is hard to believe about me . . .) I told him I was "Orthodox in union with Rome."

"Then you are not 'Orthodox'" angrily replied the Monk. "Blah, blah, blah!!"

The tour guide, Stylianos, came up and explained to the Monk that I wasn't Greek but Ukrainian Catholic.

The Monk then changed his demeanor and said, "Slipyj? Slipyj?"

When I said, "Ne," he smiled broadly and patted me on the shoulder.

He gave me an icon card, which I still have, and which I kissed as well.

He then turned to Stylianos and said, "Ah, if we had Greeks who were as pious!"

I didn't mention anything about my devotion to the Way of the Cross, however . . .

Alex

Dear traveller,

I stared another of my messages about the legal situation of Catholic Greeks with these words "I strongly believe that Greek Catholics are Greeks"and I would say "loyal Greeks" they proved it during the the II European War flighting againts the Italians. Unfortunately from the cultural point of view some of them fell foreigners in their own country. Their mother language is Greek and only Greek. You say that Greek Catholics are "the descendents of a culture foreign to the pure Greek", well I do not agree.They are descendents of the Byzantines that because of religious, political or cultural became catholics and as far as they had not a Byzantine rite hierarchy they became latin as well. They are also descendents of the Frankish that got married to orthodox women and remained in Greece retaining for thir descendents the latin rite. That is becouse of it that among catholics you can find italian (I know a lot of orthodox bishops with italian names,or names like Frankulis (little frankish)and Frankopoulos ) but also byzantine names (Paleologos, Papadopoulos (the son of the priest in Greek, not of the latin one certainly).
So, probably they are more Greek than some of them think or would like.
Me agapi en Hristo

dear Traveler,

as far as I know there is no father with that name in Greece (may be you want to say father Armaos, Athanasios?. There is a catholic church in Janina (under the Catholic Archbishop of Corfu and Ionian islands) but know is without priest, as far as I know.

Francisco,

The key phrase: "Would like to think.... ."

I lived in Greece for 6+years as a member of a minority religion and I would--out of spite moreso than out of conviction--"worship" at the Ali Pasha Mosque/Castro, which, as you know is now a museum.

I sympathize with Greek minority religious groups while personally embracing the Hellenism of the Golden Age.

Abdur

PS: Have you ever visited the Pomak villages in Thrace?

Dear Abdur,

You are an extremely fascinating and exciting individual!

You must be great company on a date

Alex

Alex:

ABDUR might be THAT exciting, but I would not dare dating him!

Unless, of course, ABDUR is, or turns out to be, a SHE?


AmdG