www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Ecumenism Takes Another Step Backwards

My 'Northern sources' tell me otherwise. Here is another perspective: they cite the example of 2 summers past when the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada used (with full permission) the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Chapel of St-Olha (St-Olga) in Ste-Theodore de Chertsey (Quebec) for the consecration of a new Orthodox priest. The chapel is located in the mountains North of Montreal which reminded the priest of his Carpathian (Ukrainian) homeland and so he selected the site for his own consecration into the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada. From my understanding of the events, about half the people were Ukrainian Orthodox who did not regularly attend the chapel, and half the participants were Ukrainian Greek-Catholic who would normaly attend Sunday divine liturgy there during the summer months . Everyone prayed together, participated in Holy Communion, and sang together. One of the Orthodox priests and one of the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic priests remain best of friends and dined together at the large banquet which was held afterwards in the main building of the summer resort.

Now things don't get more integrated than that. Perhaps it's because that is the Frenchie part of of Canada

Merci buckets !

I.F.

Dear Alexander,

No - this has nothing to do with stamp collecting.

I.F.

Phyletism
From OrthodoxWiki

The term phyletism from phili: race or tribe was coined at the Holy and Great pan-Orthodox Synod that met in Istanbul (formerly Constantinople) in 1872. The meeting was prompted by the creation of a separate bishopric by the Bulgarian community of Istanbul for parishes only open to Bulgarians. It was the first time in Church history that a separate diocese was established based on ethnic identity rather than principles of Orthodoxy and territory. Here is the Synod�s official condemnation of ecclesiastical racism, or �ethno-phyletism,� as well as its theological argumentation. It was issued on the 10th of August 1872.

"We renounce, censure and condemn racism, that is racial discrimination, ethnic feuds, hatreds and dissensions within the Church of Christ, as contrary to the teaching of the Gospel and the holy canons of our blessed fathers which �support the holy Church and the entire Christian world, embellish it and lead it to divine godliness.�


Alexandr

Philately: The collection and study of postage stamps and other postal materials.

Alexandr

Well thank you for clarifying that little bit of humor for anyone who may have not got it the first time .

I.F.

In Canada the UGCC and Ukrainian Orthodox Churches are by general accounts both canonical and they seem to get along just fine (unlike the past).

As for Ukraine, Rome continues to recognize the Union of Brest of 1596 which the Metropolitan of Kiev signed on behalf of the Ruthenian (now mostly Ukrainian) bishops. The Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople does not recognize (and never did) the 1667 usurpation of the see of Kiev by the self proclaimed Moscow Patriarch. Both Rome and Constantinople have in recent times proclaimed these events as 'truths'.

The Ruthenians of Ukraine with the full participation of their government are now consolidating their churches after 300 years of Muscovite rule. They 'myth' of ROC canonicity is now being exposed - so said the Ukrainian justice minister Roman Zvarych who is responsible for religious affairs in Ukraine (by the way, he's one great volleyball player - at least whenever I played with him). As recently posted on RISU, the ROC has yet to de-Stanlinize itself and come to terms with it's collaboration with the Communist regime and then atone for sins. Until such time that it does this, canonicity means nothing to the average Christian in Ukraine.

The Canadian churches are leading the way by example of how Christians should share their faith and live in harmony.

I.F.

Dear Jean Francois,

Well, I think you are going too far with respect to the ROC.

The UGCC and Ukrainian Orthodox all agree the ROC is canonical and valid etc.

The UOC in Canada is even in communion with the UOC-MP, a communion it does not share with the UOC-KP, even though it is closer ideologically with the latter.

The event you describe that occurred in Quebec is precisely the kind of thing the UOC in Canada is trying to avoid in future and is taking a hard-line against.

Personally, I work closely with one particular UOC priest who is a great spiritual leader, a great Christian as a man and a cleric and simply an all-round great fellow! Many think of him thus as well.

And he never ceases to amaze me with his deeply sensitive philosophical thought etc.

He is also very Orthodox.

Can't say enough good things about him . . .

I too am pained by our divisions and wish they would go away.

In Ukraine, of course, there are UGCC parishes where the people just don't even want to hear the word "Orthodox" and I've been told too many times to remember how parishioners there will make a "painful squint" with their faces when the term "Orthodox Christians" is sung during the Liturgy.

And I find, in Canada, that UGCC'ers will be more open to the Orthodox than the Orthodox will be willing to reciprocate.

That doesn't mean we don't love each other and don't feel pain at our historic divisions.

But intercommunion isn't going to solve the problem - indeed it has exacerbated it.

Alex

Dear Orthodox-Catholic,

Thanks for those kind words. Here is another perspective:

Ukrainian Forum Condemns UOC-MP Orthodox, and vice versa

Kyiv � Speaking at the World Forum of Ukrainians in Kyiv, Askold Lozynskyj, president of the Ukrainian World Congress, condemned the political activity of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate (UOC-MP). In response, Valerii Kaurov, head of the Union of Orthodox Citizens of Ukraine, called Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych to declare Lozynskyj a �persona non grata� in Ukraine. maidan.org.ua posted Lozynskyj�s speech on 20 August 2006.

The Russian Orthodox Church �was actually a structure of Stalin�s regime to implement atheism and liquidate the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church and Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church,� said Lozynskyj. �In independent Ukraine, this structure interferes in the political election process, calls for a revival of the Soviet Union, openly attacks other churches. � I am not against the Russian Orthodox Church or the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (MP), which is Ukrainian only in title. I am against the activity of a representative of Moscow on the territory of Ukraine.�

Kaurov publicly called the World Forum of Ukrainians a �mob of impostors� and Lozynskyj�s speech �the arrogant interference of a foreigner in the internal affairs of a sovereign state.� �Believers of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate,� added Kaurov, �who constitute the majority in Ukraine, represent the people of Ukraine, as opposed to the self-constituted �world congress� of schismatics, Uniates, Bandera adherents, and Ukrainian-Americans. Orthodox Russians and Ukrainians � have been and will be involved in social and political activity, defend their rights, protect the church from the attacks of nationalists and schismatics, and seek to obtain the status of second state language for Russian.�

According to regnum.ru, Archbishop Mytrofan (Yurchuk), UOC-MP administrator, repeated Kaurov almost word for word: �Today, the so-called �congress� in Kyiv is run by Uniates, schismatics, and Bandera and Mazepa adherents, who rebelled against the holy mother-church.�

�Representatives of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, the largest religious denomination in the country, were not given an official invitation or the floor to greet the participants of the forum at the opening ceremony,� stated Archbishop Mytrofan.

I.F.

PS: Don't you just love the part where he says: "schismatics, Uniates, Bandera adherents, and Ukrainian-Americans". 2 1/5 out of 4 ain't bad

Here is another perspective.

Leaders of world Orthodoxy give unanimous support UOC head
Interfax ^ | 27 November 2005, 09:15


27 November 2005, 09:15 Leaders of world Orthodoxy give unanimous support to the head of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church

Kiev, November 27, Interfax - The celebrations held this week to mark the 70th birthday of Metropolitan Vladimir of Kiev and All Ukraine have become an occasion for Orthodox Churches throughout the world to express their solidarity with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church experiencing difficulties because of a schism in Orthodoxy in Ukraine. Thirteen prominent representatives out of fifteen autocephalous Churches came to Kiev and all they, speaking on behalf of their primates, expressed unconditional support for the head of the UOC, a self-governed part of the Moscow Patriarchate.

The representative of the Patriarchate of Constantinople, Archbishop Gregorios of Thyateira, Great Britain, noted that the guests came from various countries �to honour the great hierarch, the great theologian, the great primate of the Church of Kiev and All Ukraine and to convey personally congratulations and appreciation from primates of the entire Orthodoxy in the world�. The head of the Greek diocese in England, speaking on behalf of Patriarch Bartholomaios, expressed to Metropolitan Vladimir the wish that he may serve for many years �for the benefit of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church�. Meanwhile, until recently the Constantinopolitan hierarchs avoided by all means using the name of the UOC, challenging the validity of the church jurisdiction of the Moscow Patriarchate over Ukraine.

Speaking on behalf of the Patriarch of Antioch, Bishop Niphon stated that the UOC, �which is part of the great Russian Church�, represents in the Ukrainian land �the only Orthodox Church in full spiritual communion and unity with the Orthodox world�.

The newly-enthroned Patriarch Theophilos III of Jerusalem conveyed, through the rector of his Moscow representation, Archimandrite Stephen, the assurance of his continued prayer for Metropolitan Vladimir whom he described as �recognized by the entire Orthodox world�.

The Georgian Catholicos-Patriarch Iliya II underlined that �the work of the head of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church is a heavy but at the same time a beneficial cross�. That is why �the whole Orthodox world honours the 70s birthday� of Metropolitan Vladimir, expressing �sincere love and respect� for him.

Bishop Basil of Tuzla, speaking on behalf of the Serbian Orthodox Church, stated that schisms were illnesses, and the Serbs prayed that they might be overcome in Ukraine, �that the aching souls may be healed�.

Bishop Cassian of the Low Danube, who represented Patriarch Teoctist of Romania, described Metropolitan Vladimir as �a symbol of the unity of Orthodoxy� and underlined that it was �the fullness of the Orthodox Church� that assembled in Kiev.

Metropolitan Gabriel of Lovec stated that all the Orthodox Bulgaria honoured Kiev as �a city where the Russian Orthodox Church was born�. These words emphasize the indissoluble link between Ukraine and the Moscow Patriarchate.

Archbishop Christodulos of Athens and All Greece put a special emphasis on the fact that Metropolitan Vladimir was elected as head of �the canonical Orthodox Church in Ukraine in hard times when she was put to great trials�, and in this situation he became �a steward of the traditions and teaching of one Church and a resolute protector of her canonical rights�. The statement made by the leader of the Orthodox Christians in Greece leaves no room to doubts as to with whom he identifies in the confrontation between the UOC and uncanonical groups insisting on separation from Moscow.

Metropolitan Sawa of Warsaw and All Poland also reminded of the �trials by an upheaval which disturbed peace in the Church� that the UOC experienced as a result of the schism supported by politicians. He gave a high appraisal to the services that Metropolitan Vladimir rendered to Ukraine and his efforts �to pacify the destructive sentiments and to build canonical unity between the Church and the Ukrainian people�.

Metropolitan Nikolaj of the Szech Lands and Slovakia expressed hope that �all the Orthodox people of Ukraine will soon� overcome the schisms and unite around Metropolitan Vladimir as primate of the one UOC.


Telling, don't you think?

Alexandr

No. If you read the article, you will notice that it is dated November 2005. Since that time there has been a dramatic political shift in Ukraine. If you notice there are no government leaders towing your line. In fact, they are either pro-unification of the branches of the Orthodox Churches, or they are being silent. The reality is that the minority Ukrainian Orthodox Church -Moscow Patriarchy could no longer be favored by the national government because it represents only a fraction of the true adherents. This favoratism was a behavioral legacy learned by those wishing to 'survive' by during the combined Czarist and Communist eras.

Political events no longer favor the Muscovite rulers to the North (and their lackeys) and so there is a consolidation of the branches of the Ukrainian churches which is now occuring. Once this occurs and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church becomes the largest (most numerous) in the world, other branches of Orthodoxy will take note and there will be a normalization of events - ie; recognition of the new National Ukrainian Orthodox Church. If this sounds far fetched, so did Ukrainian independence, Ukraine joining NATO and intetrating into the European Union 20 years ago (there was no Union then but I think you get my drift ).

Orthodoxy is about to enjoy it's best years ever and Global Christianity will come together because of the efforts of the Ukrainians (Ruthenians).

Don't worry - be happy !

I.F.

PS: "schismatics, Uniates, Bandera adherents, and Ukrainian-Americans" are my favority people

Again for the second time, this thread is straying into the realm of Ukrainian Orthodox Church problems and the subject of the thread is being ignored. If this thread does not stay on topic, there will be no third warning, the thread will be closed.

If you want to discuss this issue regarding the problems, etc. of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church; please start a thread regarding it elsewhere.

In IX XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator

Dear I.F.,

Isn't it odd that I am quoting hierarchs and you are quoting politicians? The problems being addressed are of the Church, not of popular concensus and politics. Have you been to Ukraine lately? I have, and I see none of this.As a matter of fact, Crimea and all the East violently opposes such nonsense. The UOC-MP continues to be the largest Church by far, The Holy fathers of Pechersky and Pochaev support Her and all of Orthodoxy supports Her. What you are advocating is setting up an anti-Church, a schismatic body based on phyletism and nationalism, which neither Rome nor Orthodoxy will recognize. Me, I'll stick to Christ and His Bride, the Holy Orthodox Catholic Apostolic Church. Now if you are willing to quote theologions or hierarchs (canonical) to back your position, I will listen. But the ravings of politicians carry no weight in the Church, nor are they of any consequence in this discussion.

Alexandr

I would like to add that the original article that appeared on INTERFAX has been corrected by the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada. Makes you wonder how reliable INTERFAX is, doesn't it???

http://www.risu.org.ua/eng/news/article;12142/

Ukrainian Orthodox in Canada Comment on Communion Practice, Interfax
02.10.2006, [09:46] // Orthodox //
Winnipeg, Canada� Fr. Bohdan Hladio, chancellor of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada (UOCC), has sent RISU commentary on a 31 July news story from Interfax. The commentary was received on 30 September 2006 and is given below in its entirety.
�Regarding the article �Ukrainian Orthodox in Canada No Longer to Give Communion to Non-Orthodox� posted on the RISU web-site, several corrections need to be made. The title itself would indicate that the practice of the UOCC until now has been to distribute Holy Communion to non-Orthodox. This is false. The UOCC, in common with all Orthodox Churches, restricts the reception of the Holy Mysteries to those who have been officially and sacramentally received into the Orthodox Church.

�The dateline given for the article is Ottawa. Our main Church office is in Winnipeg. We have no press-office in Ottawa. How is it that �official� UOCC Church announcements are coming out of Ottawa?

�While it is true that in certain isolated cases communion has been distributed to non-Orthodox, the cited encyclical was made necessary by the fact that certain heterodox Christians, often Catholics of the Eastern rite, whether out of ignorance or for some other reason feel entitled to receive Communion in parishes of the UOCC.

�The reference to the decline in membership is both disingenuous and misleading. We have two concrete means of measuring Church membership in the UOCC � governmental statistical data and Church membership rolls. According to governmental census data there were 119,000 self-professed Ukrainian Orthodox Christians in Canada in 1961, and 32,700 in 2001. According to Church membership rolls there were approximately 18,000 members in 1961, and 11,500 in 2005. As is obvious, the data given in the posted article consisted of comparing apples and oranges.

�To read the full text of the encyclical please visit the UOCC web-site at www.uocc.ca, [uocc.ca,] and refer to the 1/15 June issue of the UOCC Church newspaper, the Visnyk/Herald,� wrote Fr. Hladio.

Link to UOCC website and related previous RISU news:

� http://www.uocc.ca

� http://www.risu.org.ua/eng/news/article;11217/