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Fr. Serge,
That was as clear as a bell,interesting (Irish Communists,huh. Someone needs to tell them what year it is.) and I appreciate your patience and time,thank you. I'm afraid that reputation of yours is irreperably damaged after this,absolutely hopeless,FatherSerge.

Peace,
Indigo

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Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
...she accepted and continues to accept the term "Orthodox", in her liturgical texts, her doctrinal texts, and her general self-description. Patriarch Joseph (Cardinal Slipyj) wrote a well-known brief essay on this use of the term.

Father Serge,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Thank you for your most excellent post on this topic. I will steal from it shamelessly in an upcoming homily!

Do you have a reference for the article (in English) by Patriarch Joseph, of blessed memory?

God bless,

Fr. Deacon Daniel

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About 36 years ago I translated that article - I'll see if I can find a copy. Failing that, I could translate it over again - it's not that long.

Fr. Serge

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I consider myself to be an Orthodox Christian, and I also happen to be a Ruthenian Catholic.

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Now for those who believe that "Orthodox in communion with Rome" only exist online, I can assure you that my primary mode of existence is offline.

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Communism was never an overwhelming movement in Ireland; these days there are so few of them left that one might want to cuddle them and reassure them (though I don't know of any sensible way of reassuring them, since it is quite true that the only people who pay them any attention are bibliophiles who go to their bookstore looking for long out-of-print books). I'm not aware of anything that they do besides maintain their bookstore (and if you go in there, wear a dust mask).

Fr. Serge

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Hello Father Serge and all the other forum members!

Brendan Behan claimed to be Communist by day and Catholic by night!

James Connolly and Jim Larkin were, if not communists, certainly very far to the political left, and both remained within the Church throughout their lives.

Off topic, I know, but I just thought I'd mention it.

Is mise le meas

Craig

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There is much more that unites Catholics (Roman or Eastern) and Orthodox than divides them. Yes, there are many heterodox Roman Catholics but the ancient tradition of the Roman Church is faithful to the Gospel. Do we not believe in one Lord and Savior? Do we not receive the same Body and Blood of the Lord when we go to communion? In my view Catholics and Orthodox need to treat each other as brothers in Christ, with charity at all times, praying for the day when the tragic schism will end and we will be united.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

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A Chraig, a chara,

James Connolly once engaged in a - courteous - public discussion with a Dublin priest. It's still worth reading (given a choice between Connolly and Pearse I'll take Pearse).

James Larkin was a Social Democrat - which has never caught on much in Ireland. We're a nation of extremists!

Fr. Serge

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Connolly was reconciled to the Catholic Church before his execution. A point I always enjoy reminding lefties of.

Jim Larkin once spoke before a group of Communists in NYC, most of whom who were Jewish, and at one point in his speech, shocked them out of there senses by pulling out a crucifix and telling them of his faith in Jesus Christ.

BUT back to the original topic. Might I ask, how do Orthodox Christians feel about Eastern Catholics calling themselves "Orthodox in Communion"

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Originally Posted by Lawrence
BUT back to the original topic. Might I ask, how do Orthodox Christians feel about Eastern Catholics calling themselves "Orthodox in Communion"
I think that we have to allow people to describe themselves in what way is meaningful to them. So I am not going to tell other people that they have no right to call themselves Orthodox.

But, when confusion may arise among people, it is necessary to say that although Greek Catholics may call themselves "Orthodox in Communion with Rome," they are not in fact in communion with the Orthodox Church.

I personally think that when you choose to call yourself something that everyone else will misunderstand, it can be exhausting. About a decade ago I gave up battling to always give the term 'Catholic' a qualifier when speaking of those in communion with the Pope of Rome (i.e. always insisting on calling them Roman Catholics or Byzantine Catholics) because I viewed the Orthodox Church as The Catholic Church. (I think this might have been a holdover from my Anglican days. smile ) It is just a reality that people generally think of Catholics as those in Communion with Rome and Orthodox as members of the 'Eastern Orthodox Church.' By using these terms in our everyday speech we do give up our individual claim that the other term does not also apply to our side technically.

Fr David Straut

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People can call themselves whatever they want to. I don't see what it really matters. The words "Greek Catholic" are in a bunch of places in Orthodoxy.

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Originally Posted by AMM
People can call themselves whatever they want to. I don't see what it really matters. The words "Greek Catholic" are in a bunch of places in Orthodoxy.

As far as the USA goes, the term "Greek Catholic" stuck to satisfy the leanings of ex Greek Catholics who converted to Orthodoxy. Sort of like we're Orthodox now, but we're also still Greek Catholic. Many cornerstones prove this.

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Originally Posted by Fr David Straut
I personally think that when you choose to call yourself something that everyone else will misunderstand, it can be exhausting.

Amen, Amen, Amen! Chosing a moniker that will lead one to constantly have to give the 2 minute explination and 10ยข tour of history is nothing if not exhausting. Frankly, I could only do so for so long before I gave up the ghost, dropped the OicwR, and simply opted to be "Greek Catholic" or - as often as not when talking with non-Catholics, Protestants, non-Christians - simply say "Catholic". My JW neighbor's eyes would glaze over further if I did more than that.

Originally Posted by Fr David Straut
About a decade ago I gave up battling to always give the term 'Catholic' a qualifier when speaking of those in communion with the Pope of Rome (i.e. always insisting on calling them Roman Catholics or Byzantine Catholics) because I viewed the Orthodox Church as The Catholic Church. (I think this might have been a holdover from my Anglican days. smile ) It is just a reality that people generally think of Catholics as those in Communion with Rome and Orthodox as members of the 'Eastern Orthodox Church.' By using these terms in our everyday speech we do give up our individual claim that the other term does not also apply to our side technically.

Fr David Straut


Father David, there is some genteel wisdom in this. Not the least of which is that if we give up the semantics on monikers, that is not an indication that we are indifferent, just practical. The tendancy of some to demand Catholics be qualified as "Roman Catholic" seems to be - at times - almost childish and affected.

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I just tell people I'm part of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Diocese, and I assume the average person will understand what that means.

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