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Why does the Byzantine Catholic church end some of their prayers "Now and Ever and Forever" while the orthodox church ends the same payers "Now and ever and unto ages of ages" is there a specific reason for the difference?

tradition ?

"Unto ages of ages" is more literally following the Greek, but some might feel that it has little meaning to modern English speaking ears, so they use the more idiomatic English expression "forever."

However, in this choice of words we may also find a kind of effort to distinguish Eastern Catholicism from Orthodoxy. It is the reason why some Greek Catholic eschew the term "Orthodox Christians" in the liturgical services, using "right-believing Christians" instead.

Fr David Straut

Melkites use Unto the ages of ages and pray for all orthodox christians in the liturgy.

Father David:

Father bless!!

Actually many Latin prayers follow that same word order: . . . per omnia saecula saeculorum. Literally it means "through all ages of ages."

I remember an explanation of this by Helen Waddell in her translation of the Desert Fathers where she states that they might have brought us to the idea of eternity through imagining an "age"--an infinite length of time for people of their era; the whole of created time from Adam to the Last Day--and then expanding that to "ages of ages"--infinite numbers of infinite numbers: an endless life with our Creator. She goes on to mention a writer who likens our present lives as a drop in a bucket compared to the ocean of eternity--something to lift our thinking from our present lives and concerns to contemplate the really important things for which we were created. I guess it's like looking out from a high mountain, realizing how small and unimportant we really are, and then realizing that our Creator--the One responsible for all that we can see--thought enough of us to come here to save us.

WOW.

BOB

Cool Bob. We learn things every day don't we?

An English question, if you could answer to me please.

And what is the difference between "ever" and "forever"? "Ever" is equivalent to "always" and "forever" to "eternally"?

In Brazil, the Melkite Church uses "agora e sempre e pelos séculos dos séculos" ("now and always and unto centuries of centuries").

I guess just the way it is said it means the same thing.

Dear Philippe,

I do think that it is redundant in English to say "now and ever, and forever." In this context "ever' means "forever." I just think that those who use this expression are trying to duplicate what the underlying Greek is saying. I believe that that is better accomplished by the translation "now and ever, and unto ages of ages." An age is a long period of time in English, much longer than a century. In older English, the expression "world without end" was used to translate the Latin equivalent of "unto ages of ages": "et in saecula saeculorum."

Fr David Straut

Perhaps I am biased, but I do think that 'now and ever, and unto the ages of ages' is more melodic and dramatic, and more evocative of the mystical and incomprehensible nature of our God.

In other words, I think that it is the best English translation! :-)

Alice

Dear Father David, dear Alice,

As you know already, I stand firmly with you on this one. You may find it interesting to cast your mind back a few decades. The Greek Archdiocese and certain other jurisdictions tried some alternative wordings for a while, and then, somehow, they all returned, one by one, to "ages of ages".

Those who say we're being either a bit precious or a bit obscure should be told that in such a case, we can always use a more precise translation: "eons of eons".

Fr. Serge

Father Bless!

I found these with a quick Google search:

for·ev·er (fôr-vr, fr-)
adv.
1. For everlasting time; eternally: No one can live forever.
2. At all times; incessantly: was forever complaining about the job.
n.
A seemingly very long time: It has taken forever to resolve these problems.

ev·er (vr)
adv.
1. At all times; always: ever hoping to strike it rich.
2.
a. At any time: Have you ever been to Europe?
b. In any way; at all: How did they ever manage? See Usage Note at rarely.
3. To a great extent or degree. Used for emphasis often with so: He was ever so sorry. Was she ever mad!
Idioms:
ever and again/anon
Now and then; occasionally.
for ever and a day
Always; forever.

Maybe the selection of the words is to emphasize the fact that we should praise/glorify/worship God always (constantly) and "neverendingly" (not a real word but one can't describe a word by using the same word one is trying to describe.)

Personally I prefer: "ever and forever" because an ages is long time but not forever. I think this is a case of the Greek idiom not coveying the idea as well as the less literal translation. Kind of like saying the Doe-eyed Hera, rather than the Cow-eyed Hera, even though the latter is the literal translation.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Alice,

I think you've hit the nail on the head!

(Unfortunately, most UGCC churches in the US are required to use "forever and ever.")


Peace,
Deacon Richard

"unto ages of ages" would definitely be the better translation.

It also hits on a mystery of theology that is not often discussed:
"eternity" is a property exclusive to God. Only God is eternal, only God is infinite. Even Aristotle understood that time and space were both limits and that God, if "infinite", must also be "eternal." This is something even more true now that time is understood as just another dimension of space.

So, God is both timeless and boundless, but these are attributes proper to God and only God. When we enter into "everlasting life," it would not be the same thing, technically, as "eternal life." If it were, then, like God, we would preexist the universe.

Thus, as opposed to eternity, we enter into sempiternity--endless time.