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Greek Orthodox Church Leader Visits Cuba
VOA News
24 Jan 2004, 15:34 UTC

[Linked Image]

The Greek Orthodox spiritual leader, Bartholomew I, is in Cuba to hold talks with church officials and consecrate a cathedral in Havana.

The patriarch met Friday with the head of the Roman Catholic church in Cuba, Cardinal Jaime Ortega, for talks that an Orthodox spokesman described as "friendly."

Entire Article [voanews.com]

Also see: Politics Complicates Church Leader\'s Visit [miami.com]

I read a news headline on FOX News that the church would be known as the 'Byzantine Orthodox Church of Cuba'.

Hritzko,

You watch FOX?

Logos Teen

The cycle machine (or as you say in America; bike machine) at my gym has a t.v. monitor and the only news channel is FOX. I rather watch FOX than the only other options these days; 'reality shows' .

How are many Orthodox Cubans are there in Cuba that warrant the building of an Orthodox cathedral?

In light of Orthodox accusations of "sheep stealing" against the Catholic Church for establishing Catholic dioceses in traditionally Orthodox countries, why then do the Orthodox Churches establish Orthodox eparchies in traditionally Catholic countries?

Dear Griego Catholico,

You make a point, and I am not offended.

I think that we (the Greek Orthodox) have more of a responsibility to make Christians of atheists, real heretics, and the unchurched, than we do to evangelize to Roman Catholics in South America. (I don't know about the religious situation in Cuba so I cannot comment)

In all fairness, however, this church was largely built by the money of a wealthy Greek-American benefactor, and if it will serve the needs of even just a few Orthodox, that is a nice thing.

In Christ,
Alice

All,

I know quite well the situation of the Church (Roman Catholic) in Cuba as well as religion in general over there. Living in such general proximity to Cuba and amongst the "exiled" Cuban community I have a good idea about the situation of religion there. Atheists are in the majority, Roman Catholics follow (around 40% and growing), small pockets of Protestants and sporadic communities of Jews and others.

As a matter of fact, there are not many Orthodox believers or Eastern Catholics for that matter in Central or South America or the Caribbean (which is where Cuba is located, not South America).

This does not mean that there are no Orthodox faithful or churches in these regions, but very simply they are in an extreme minority.

As a Roman Catholic I do not like to see any religion besides my own enter into geographic areas which are traditonally Catholic. For me this dislike basically boils down to Protestants, Evangelicals, and other "Christian" sects which actively "recruit" my fellow churchmen and women. But I do not mind the Orthodox presence. For one my Church teaches that the Orthodox should be treated as a sister church. But most importantly I feel that the Orthodox are not there to proselytize my brothers and sisters but to provide liturgical support to their own ethnic and religious followers. And if some Catholic wishes to convert its up to him or her but I feel confident that the Orthodox church is not trying to undermine Roman Catholicisms position in Latin America.

It must be a relief for those Orthodox in Cuba to finally have a Cathedral of their own. I know if I was a Catholic in Russia or Greece, I would be relived to finally have my own church.

I see this as a sign of different religions working together for good.

God Bless

ProCatholico

Dear Griego Catolico, +May the LORD bless you! There are well over 2,000 Orthodox Christians at last count in Cuba (mostly in the Greater Havana area) and that would certainly seem to be enough for at least ONE small Orthdox church. And---it's important to add that His Eminence, Cardinal Jaime Ortega, Primate of the Roman Catholic Church of Cuba was very much in favor of this church being built.

In Him Who calls us,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory

Dear Archimandrite Gregory, Alice, and ProCatholico,

Thank you for your replies and the information. I am glad you were not offended by my comment. It was not my intention to offend anyone by my post. I was not aware that there were over 2,000 Orthodox Christians living in the Havana area. I did not know that there were so many Orthodox Christians in Cuba. Of course, there should be a church built to meet their spiritual needs.

Alice, you made the comment that the Greek Orthodox Church had a greater responsibilty to "make Christians of atheists, real heretics , and the unchurched". I see no problem in the Greek Orthodox Church doing this sort of work in Cuba.

Yet, if this happened to be a Catholic cathedral being built in Russia, the Russian Orthodox Church would have a problem with the Catholic Church wanting to make Christians of the "atheists, real heretics, and the unchurched" of Russia. The ROC would say that these people should consider Russian Orthodoxy first, and that the Catholic Church is "stealing" them from that possibilty.

If the Catholic Church is welcoming of Orthodox Christians in traditionally Catholic countries, shouldn't the ROC have that same courtesy to the Roman Catholic Church in Russia?


God bless you all,

griego

Dear Alice,

A small correction to your post. Cuba is part of North America (it just seems way down there ).

Your response was very good and perhaps could be qualified with some examples;

(1) The Cuban who grew up in a Communist state and who has no memory Catholism may take a liking to Orthodoxy.

(2) A former Communist who would like to find God but can't feel at home in a Catholic Church because he had persecuted in his former political life (it shouldn't be that way).

There are probably many other examples.

Dear Grieco-Catholico,

Actually, I think that the building of an Orthodox Cathedral in Havana is a great service to the Catholic Church. What this shows the Russians is that there is no such thing as pure Orthodox or Catholic country. It should show the Russians Church how things should be in their own country. The RC bishop welcomed the construction of the new cathedral, met with the Orthodox Patriarch in a friendly manner, and made a public announcement that he welcomed the building of the new cathedral.

Archimandrite Gregory,

I thought that article (on the link) said there were 1200 EO's in Cuba? Nonetheless, I'd sooner trust your figures than theirs.

Logos Teen

All,

From the CIA World Factbook:

CUBA: nominally 85% Roman Catholic prior to CASTRO assuming power; Protestants, Jehovah's Witnesses, Jews, and Santeria are also represented

The Orthodox Christians who are in Cuba number from 1,200-2000. The number is not large or small, it is normal, considering that it matches the amount of foreigners of Eastern Orthodox stock in that country.

ProCatholico

It is my hope that relations between the Catholic and Russian Orthodox Churches will improve in the following months, beginning hopefully with Cardinal Kaspar's meeting with Patriarch Alexei next month in Moscow. I hope that the good relations between that Catholic and Orthodox Churches in Cuba can serve as a model of sorts for the churches in Russia.
It is my hope that a papal visit to Moscow will take place. The Holy Father desires so much to improve relations with the Russian Orthodox Church, and it pains me to see that his gestures toward better relations are always met with the same accusations that the ROC keeps putting forth. It is time that the two sides come together in fraternal love and charity and come to an agreement regarding the issue of proselytism.

Hi Hritzko,

I know that Cuba is not part of South America...

My comment about South America was another (obviously scattered) thought relating to the comparison of Orthodox churches 'prosletyzing' in Mexico and South America and Catholic churches 'prosletyzing' in Russia.

I think that helping former atheists find Christ in a sacramental church is very different from converting devout Roman Catholics to Orthodoxy.

In Christ,
Alice

Dear Pro-Catholico.

Neither the "exiled" oligarchi of Miami or the godless Communists of Castro's regime can be a good source to have an imparcial view of what is really happening in Cuba.

The Roman Catholic Church in Cuba has the same status given to the Moscow Patriarchate under the Soviets. The "modus vivendi" between Cuba's Catholic hierarchy and the government was patterned on the agreements and laws passed by the Mexican regime, which had got power some decades before Castro and who was his teacher and master for long time.

Catholic hierarchy was submited to the regime, silently without criticizing. Although priests did not take an oath of support like in China, religious ministry was denied to anyone who did not support the government. The RC worked with several restrictions such as teaching cathechism outside churches (religious edication was forbidden) or publishing books that were not strictly liturgical or religious. So the Catholic Dioceses due to the gradual loose of faithful who were educated in marxist schools started closing churches and missions. Unlike Mexico, where the government took many old church properties as national monuments and spent some amounts of money to keep them in good state while the RC dioceses built new modernist-style buildings with government support; Cuba's government does not have money for that so churches have been turned into museums, offices and shopping malls.

The Cuban hierarchy has suffered infiltration and after Communism is gone, it will take time for the RC there to become fully free of Communism. Recently Mexican Catholic prelates (those of the old guard) because of the personal friendship of some of them with Castro, have been helping the Cuban Church with funds to build seminaries and churches, and there's certainly a rebirth of Catholicism there since the Papal visit.

Many people in Cuba will sure discover and get a liking for the Orthodox Church, maybe because it's a new thing, which is 100% Catholic but has no links with the government or with the sometimes conflictive history of the Roman Church in Latin America (leftist regimes in Cuba and Mexico often taught in schools exagerations about the conquest and the evangelizations, etc).

Today in Cuba, Catholics will welcome all religions (the WCC, the Evangelicals are well seen by the hierarchy there, and now the Orthodox) but maybe that will not be the same in the future, when the Catholic Church will recover the lost ground and become a National symbol trying to recover a status of preference, just as it's now happening in Mexico.

The Catholic Chuch in Latin America is generaly very friendly toward the Orthodox because it's a small minority which does not make so much noise among native people. It does not rivalize with the Catholic Church which is respected and seen as the religious heart of the country. This is also true about the Anglicans and Lutherans, unlike the Evangelical sects whose presence is repudiated by the Catholic Church.

Experience has shown that when the Orthodox tried to get the dissatisfied Catholics (specialy the old fashioned ones) or become a "twin" Church of the Catholic as the Exarchate of Mexico (affiliated with the OCA) is seen in some small communities where their presence is important (even when it's still a very small group), the RC will not like that. There have been incidents between both groups.

(so I guess you can't blame the MP for acting weird sometimes)