www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Russian church 'stolen by thieves'

Somehow, I find it hard to believe that someone could actually steal an entire church and no one notice it being gone for several months.

Russian church 'stolen by thieves' [news.bbc.co.uk]

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

How bizarre!

Now I know that St. Xenia of Petersburg secretly helped BUILD a church brick by brick, but who would secretly dismantle a church brick by brick?!?

Alice

OH MY!

Lord have mercy!

This is a perfect story for a local news channel where I live. They thrive on curious news.

This is indeed hard to believe. It's even harder to believe if someone wanted an actual church in which to pray and hold services - doing that in a building which had been stolen brick by brick would be something of a spiritual challenge.

All that I can think of is that the thieves either wanted the building materials or were stealing on behalf of someone else who wanted the building materials and was not particular about where the building materials might originate.

In North America, as I know from sad experience, there are other ways of stealing a church - but this is done by means of manipulating the law (which is morally worse), not by means of taking the church apart brick by brick.

Then there are the events which followed World War II. Anyone who would like to see photographs of several hundred stolen churches in Poland should obtain the book of Oleh Iwanusiw Church in Ruins.

Fr. Serge

Dear Friends,

In actual fact, this goes on in Russia and Ukraine all the time!

Many churches and monasteries are under renovations (with some being totally replaced because of their condition, especially under the Soviets) so the removal of bricks over time would not necessarily cause concern as it would appear to others to be a legitimate enterprise aimed at building renewal . . .

In addition, there is traffic not only in icons, but also in anything associated with old churches, including bricks which people honour (let us remember the chips of stone from the rock on which St Seraphim of Sarov prayed for 1,000 days and nights).

Even British Methodists "made a killing" when they raised funds by selling the bricks of Wesley's old chapel in London (that's the building I believe it was).

Historically, there are plenty of precedents for taking down churches, brick by brick, stone by stone.

During our class on the history of the Brest Union, there were cases we read about where the Poles, when they took over a formerly Orthodox church/cathedral, actually dismantled them stone by stone in order to take each stone to the nearby river to wash them and so "cleanse" them of schism (!).

The Rev. Father Archimandrite mentions the book "Church in Ruins" and this is truly an amazing book of photographs depicting, among many other things, three-bar Crosses still on ruined cupolas, twisted and laying in cow-fields.

The three-bar Cross is apparently a "schismatic Cross" and therefore worthy of RC indignation and attack . . .

Frankly, when I see that, I'd prefer it if the RC's and EC's just got together and had it out like they did in Jerusalem on that video . . .

Alex

Back about twenty years ago Bishop Isidore, Mr and Mrs Iwanusiw, and I happened to visit one of our stolen churches in "Polish Galicia"; it had been turned into a Latin place of worship but, as the priest pointed out to us proudly, they had kept the icon-screen and a wonder-working icon as a memento of bygone days. His Grace turned to the rest of us, looking puzzled, and said in English (which the Polish priest did not speak or understand); "does he expect us to thank him?"

Talk about chutzpah.

Fr. Serge

Well, if this church happens to appear suddenly in a small village in Italy, won't our faces be red!

Dave

Bless, Father Archimandrite!

Yes - and the icons of Zhyrovitsi and of Pochaiv are also listed among the Polish shrines.

The "Church in Ruins" have equally "chutzpah-ish" stories about RC priests being told about the three-bar Crosses on top of their "RC churches" and when this is pointed out, the answer usually is, "Oh, I haven't noticed that . . ."

Fr. Ireney Nazarko OSBM in his "History of Kyivan and Galician Metropolitans" mentions a Polish Synod held in the 18th century, I believe, where they condemned not only the Orthodox but especially the Greek-Catholics.

The reason for the condemnation is that the Greek-Catholics were spreading their "schismatic" traditions to the RC students in seminaries (where both attended together) and the RC seminarians had started to grow beards, wear long black robes and do other "regrettable imitations" of the Greek-Catholics.

It would appear that Greek-Catholics were only "half Catholic" insofar as their continued maintenance of Orthodox traditions was supposed to be a "temporary affair" until they "learned better." Bl. Basyl Velychkovsky himself heard words to this effect from the Polish bishops of his day in the 20th century who told him the Pope was "making a grave mistake by allowing the Eastern Rites to flourish."

Wszystkiego najlipscziego!

Alex

I heard the same impudence from Bishop Ignatius Tokarczyk, in Przemsl (or Peremyshl). I won't tell you what my response was, but it was brief and to the point.

Fr. Serge

On a more mundane note... There was an abandoned high-rise testament to gross government incompetence a few blocks from a home I once owned. Intended to be housing for "low income seniors" it spent a few decades serving as a bit of a low security prison... The residents weren't kept in by the staff, they were kept in by the criminal gangs that sold drugs (brazenly) in front of the building in broad day light.

Closed after a few years, it had become known that it was slated for demolition (it is still there, 5+ years later)... No one, absolutely NO ONE paid any attention to the work crews that came in under cover of daylight, with orange vests on and took out all the windows to the place. Just pre-demo, right?

Nope. For a week they toiled and labored, taking out each window of this abandoned high rise.

We came to find out they were just thieves who were stripping the joint of copper pipes, wire, and aluminum and took alll the doors, hinges, and door knobs they could.

It goes to show that if you look like you are supposed to be there, and doing something you are supposed to be doing, no one thinks anything of it. You can steal a building brick by brick, or window by window, or door by door.

Go figure.

For no particularly good reason, this reminds me of the time that someone succeeded in shoplifting a piano from one of the big department stores in New York! As if that weren't enough, they managed to have the piano delivered.

Simple enough - they forged the necessary tags for the piano and affixed the tags to the piano without being observed in the process. When the wheels unwound, the piano had found yet another new home.

Now that is chutzpah!

Fr. Serge

This reminds me of another sort of incident of removal of things.

Waaaaaay back when hospitals had long wards [ yeah in the UK ] TVs were not common - but some hospitals had them for patients who were able to be up and in day rooms etc.

It's surprising how often these TVs disappeared - permanently

Men would come in in white coats - just lift the things [ and they were big in those days ] and take them away for 'repair' - well that's what they said when challenged .

Sending for the men in white coat might be a suitable response to some of what appears on TV these days!

Fr. Serge

Several years ago, I represented the then-largest oak furniture dealer in Nevda.

Their inventory control was pretty much non-existant--when they ran low on something, they bought more, as near as I can tell, but there was no connection between inventory and sales.

Some salesmen, drivers, and floor managers concocted a scheme. When a customer seemed a likely prospect, the salesman would refer him to a manager for a manager's special. Part of the special was that if they paid in cash, there was no sales tax (or receipt!).

The furniture would then be delivered from Oakmart inventory in an Oakmart truck.

Once we figured it out, I filed papers, and had a process server at each store on payday. Instead of their checks, they got summons.

One of their lawyers even brought that up, reminding me that it was illegal to withhold an employee's paycheck.

I responded that they hadn't been employees for some time, merely trespassing criminals, and that I'd be happy to litigate the issue

hawk