www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Pews

And who knew the pew could be a place of temptation!

Some badly needed humor here. Thank you. I didn't mean to throw a bomb into the forum and watch it blow up

Einar

Dear Aleksandr,

Have you joined the yedinovertsy? Here is the first version you have provided:

The Prayer of St Ephraim the Syrian:
Господи и владико животѹ моемѹ, духъ оунынїѧ, небре жεнїѧ, срεбролюбїѧ и празднословїѧ ѿжεни ѿ мεнε.
Духъ же цѣломѹдрїѧ, смиренїѧ, терпѣнїѧ и любве дарѹй ми рабѹ твоемѹ.
Ей Господи Царю, даждь ми зрѣти моѧ согрѣшенїѧ, и еже не ωсуждати брата моегω, якω благословенъ еси во вѣки. Аминь

That is lifted from the pre-Nikonian text. Cf. Old Orthodox Prayer Book (first edition), Erie, Pennsylvania 1986, p. 12.

The second version you give is:

The Prayer of St Ephraim the Syrian:
Господи и владыко живота моегω, духъ оунынїѧ, небрежεнїѧ, любоначалїѧ и празднословїѧ ѿжεни ѿ мεнε.
Духъ же цѣломѹдрїѧ, смиреномѹдрїѧ, терпѣнїѧ и любве, дарѹй ми рабѹ твоемѹ.
Ей Господи Царю, даждь ми зрѣти моѧ согрѣшенїѧ, и не ωсуждати брата моегω, якω благословенъ еси во вѣки вѣковъ. Аминь

This is a hybrid between the pre-Nikonian text and a few genuflections to the Nikon text.

And here is the Nikonian text;

Господи и Владыко живота моего, дух праздности, уныния, любоначалия и празднословия не даждь ми.

Дух же целомудрия, смиреномудрия, терпения и любве, даруй ми рабу Твоему.

Ей, Господи Царю, даруй ми зрети моя прегрешения, и не осуждати брата моего, яко благословен еси во веки веков, Аминь.

(Сf. Sluzhebnik, Rome 1956, pp. 312-313. The anonymous editor was Father Cyril Korolevsky). I verified it against the Chasoslov, Moscow Patriarchate, 2000, p. 16. My apology for the new orthography.

Welcome to the ranks of pre-Nikonians!

Fr. Serge

Poppycock. If one follows the rubrics around here (Eparchy of Van Nuys) one stands at least 90% of the DL, whether seating is available or not.

And?

I would guess most would think the parish could not afford proper seating. The response might well be a fundraiser...

Chuy,

Are you this rude and obnoxious in real life? Or are you here to honestly discuss something? From your profile and your responses, you seem to be a Roman Catholic here to try to teach us ignorant Byzantines how we should do things.

What I am is a Catholic Christian who displayed some pictures of his remodeled Eastern parish here. I was amused by those who commented negatively on the wonderful pews.

I have heard many people here comment negatively about pews but they have yet to give any legitimate reason for not having them. Not a one... Other than initial cost and possibly increased maintenance and janitorial costs, I see no downsides.

Someone suggested if pews exist, people will sit. Malarkey. Posture is defined for us by the liturgy. Some suggest we cannot fully worship with seating in place. More malarky. I still have yet to see any concrete reason for not having pews/seating except for those I listed above.

Chuy:

For most of us Eastern Christians--Orthodox or Catholic--who prefer not to have pews, the only "legitimate" reason we need for not having pews is that they are not part of our Eastern Christian tradition. Indeed, they do make difficult certain aspects of worship, in particular, the full prostrations done during Great Lent. Of course, anyone is free to hold the opinion that there are good reasons for having pews. However, a bit more respect for our beloved traditions would be appreciated.

Sincerely,

Ryan

Chuy

I'm glad you referred to your posts on the remodelled St Anne Church

St Annes remodelling

as I have just been reading it - with a great deal of interest.

I'm very very puzzled as to why someone who declares himself to be a is so very very interested - almost to the obsessive stage - about our practices.

Why are you so interested in the subject of Consecration of Chalices v Dedication of Chalices ?

You seem to approve of pews - OK - that's your perogative , many of us do not and you have read our reasons .

Why not just accept the fact that we do not agree with you on this ?

OK, I will bite once more, even though I am well aware that I am most likely dealing with a Latin Trad Troll.

You state that no one has given any legitimate reason for not having pews. Yet you disregard the article that I posted on the subject, which quite nicely explained the damage done by pews. You conveniently disregard my question about prostrations, and then go on a tirade using such terms as malarky and poppycock to dismiss those who attempt to correct your incorrect assumptions. Then you go so far as to, when being informed that pews are a Protestant innovation, you respond with an ever so edifying "so?".
Listen, my fine Latin friend. You are more than welcome here to learn about the East. You will find many who are well versed on the Eastern Church on this Forum. But leave your Latin hubris at the door. We in the East do not need yet another Latin to come in to attempt to teach us the right way when they really have no concept of what the East is all about. If these stipulations are not acceptable to you, maybe one of the Latin Traditional Forums might lend you a more sympathetic ear.

Alexandr

Chuy,

I'm happy that you like the pews in your Church. However, I find this post of your obnoxious. I wish you would stop posting in this mannerless way. If you don't appreciate Eastern worship and spirituality I can't help. If your only concerns are monetary, I'll pray for you. But it is very rude to come charging in here and claiming that Eastern spirituality and worship are somehow beneath consideration.

CDL

Bless Father Serge!

LOL! Yes, I am aware that the text I provided was old. It was something I hand copied from one of Archmandrite Kyprian's Chesolav back in my seminary days, and part of my personal prayer rule. I did not realize that it was THAT old! LOL!

The 2nd text, I pulled from Mogila. I thought that would be the version EC's would use. Ah, live and learn!

By the way, I have always been a secret admirer of the Starovertsi, and if Erie was just a tad bit closer, well.....

Alexandr

Being that this argument has been basically cyclical, nothing is being gained by the continuation of this discussion since tempers are beginning to flare. This thread is hereby closed.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator