Originally posted by Deacon Peter UGCC:
But generally one must realize that
identity of our Church (UGCC) should be based on 1) the fact that UGCC is a Church of Christ, not a secular organization, 2) Ukrainian (Kyivan) version of Byzantine Rite rather than Ukrainian ethnicity. If the Church is Ukrainian ethnic club, she has no chance to maintain Polonised Ukrainians or attract non-Ukrainians (mainly Poles, of course, but often with Ukrainian ancestry, especially in Kholmschyna and Podlachia).
Originally posted by Irish Melkite:
How very well put!
I say we take up a collection and bring Deacon Peter over here to explain these facts to those who would maintain our churches as hide-bound centers of ethnic identity. 
Originally posted by Hritzko:
I must agree that in some ways our churches are 'ethinic clubs' which are in many parts of North America tightly bound to our other nationilistic organizations. Given the complete distruction at the end of WW2 of the Greek Catholic and Orthodox Churces in Ukraine, there was a necessity for creating these 'ethnic clubs".
...
Our North American churches, cultural, financial, scholarly, and other institutions were established and funded with the hard work of generations of Ukrainians, with an ultimate goal of re-establishment of all the above in an idependant Ukraine. They will continue with this being their primary goal.
Is this heretical ? I do not think so.
When I read your comments concerning our church as being an 'ethnic club' I sence negativity. Perhaps you should first study the history of Ukraine, including, the parts relating to genocide by the Russian communists in 1932-1933, the complete destruction our churches and institutions of higher learning by the agents of Moscow. Millions and millions of people in the past century alone have died trying to establish a Christian democratic society. Once you have read even the basics, you will rapidly understand that our 'ethinic clubs' are not heretical, but quite Christian. ...
...
When my father and his brother come to meet their maker, and the conversation goes something like this, who will be judged as a heretic ?
... to these newly arrived immigrants a disassociation from ones Slavic ethnicity and countries in light of the dire situation of our churches in Eastern Europe is.... well let's just say not right.
The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church contrary to what you may think, is open to all. But perhaps you should take a different approach. Ask not what your UGCC church can do for Americans such as yourself who have had easy lives, but what you can do for the UGCC to better the lives of those in dire need of assistance and true revangelization abroad.
Greg,
Given that the UGCC was the context from which Deacon Peter was speaking, it is understandable that my comments appeared to be specifically directed at it. They were not, but I apologize for allowing that understandable perception.
I know the history of the suffering of the Ukrainian people and others whose lands were within the Nazi and Communist realms of influence and persecution, although clearly not from the immediate perspective of those such as yourself who are but a generation removed from these horrors. That those who were able to escape came together, took refuge in their religious identity, and used it as a source of strength and starting point from which to build new lives and mutually support themselves and their fellow country-men in doing so, is understandable and commendable and I would never denigrate that. Nor do I deny that there is still a need to do so, given the relatively recent freedom accorded to your ancestral homeland and the ongoing need to support your peoples in achieving fulfillment and recovering the history and heritage which their oppressors tried, unsuccessfully and for so long, to suppress.
My intention in remarking on Deacon Peter's remarks was to salute the idea that our Churches - all of them - Ukrainian, Melkite, Ruthenian, Chaldean, Armenian, Greek, Copt, etc - must be open and welcoming to all, if we are to survive and grow as meaningful religious entities over time, a discussion which has been had here before and for which I have been a vocal advocate (I will spare everyone the posting of the 1970 Christmas Pastoral Message of Archbishop Joseph (Tawil), titled "The Courage To Be Ourselves", to which I have subjected the Forum on numerous prior occasions).
It was a new and (to my mind) refreshing experience to hear that philosophy espoused by someone from the "old country" - a place where, truthfully, I doubt most of us even think of that as a necessity (focused, as we North Americans tend to be, on our continent as the center of the universe).
I think disassociation from one's ethnicity, culture, and ancestral homeland, whether it be Slavic and Ukraine or Celtic and Ireland, is a serious and regretable mistake. As has been said, but is not fashionable in eras of ultra-patriotism, the only true Americans (and Canadians, too) are the Native Peoples. All the rest of us need to look behind us and see where we've been; though we, our parents, or our grandparents came here and, hopefully, made a better life, "back there" is still a big part of what made us who we are. My perspective - and that of others who have come into the Eastern Churches - may be a tad different, as our religion and our culturo-ethnicity are not intrinsically wound, like an unending Celtic knot; but, I love my Church and its Sister Churches. I don't want to see them fade away because culture, language, or ethnicity becomes the sole or an overriding consideration in welcoming folks into them and, ultimately, they stagnate and become chapters in a future edition of Ehrman's "Lost Christianities".
The Latin Slovacks in the US, served primarily by the Franciscan Custody, have maintained their national parishes and identity; as to the Byzantine Slovacks, I am not sufficiently familiar with the situation in the Canadian Eparchy to comment on the facts you stated. Regarding the Ruthenians, I won't touch that observation with a ten foot pole. (I know in whose home I am visiting :p ).
Memory eternal to both your father, Hritzko, and uncle, Nykola. I believe that God will judge both mercifully, understanding as only He can the physical and psychological demons with which each wrestled here on earth, considering the decisions that each made in that light, and will lead them both to a place of peace and light, where there is neither suffering nor sighing, neither grief nor pain, but only eternal joy in His Presence.
I agree with you that Deacon Peter's subsequent post was inspiring and well put:
Originally posted by Deacon Peter UGCC:
Let us be frank: I am Ukrainian, speak Ukrainian quite fluently and so on. I am not against the Ukrainian character of the Church, but it's obvious that it shouldn't be obstacle for anyone to feel in a church like in God's house.
For instance, we in Lublin have services and
sermons in Ukrainian, but we don't exclude non-Ukrainians who come to our Liturgy, Nativity and
Easter meetings and other activities.
And one should also remember that one can be
non-Ukrainian and good member of the UGCC at the
same time. Let's read Metropolitan Andrew Sheptyts'kyi's pastoral letter to Greek-Catholic
Poles of May 16th 1904!
Substitute any other appropriate terms of nationality/ethnicity reference for those relating to the Ukrainians, and his comments are equally applicable.
Again, my apologies to my Ukrainian brothers and sisters for any impression I gave that theirs is a less-welcoming religious environment than it ought to be.
Many years,
Neil
As the preview button isn't working, I hope this post makes sense; I hate posting blindly.
