www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Re: Stimulus/Recovery and Reinvestment Plan

Thanks for the posts HelenPR. At the end of the day the Administrations plan is a major piece of legislation that should be discussed during the budgetary process! NOT pushed through as absolutely necessary to save America!

IF The Plan is passed - there is no going back and we'll be saddled with a 8 or 9 billion dollar bill! We might be lucky if the plan has a marginal effect on the economy. Businesses not government will the ones that truly revive the economy!

Just a pet peeve for me.- 5. $6 billion for university building projects. I remember going to Wayne State University and paying an ever increasing tuition all the while watching the new buildings go up. I remember thinking to my self - the new buildings are nice but they don't help me learn any better and I'm still in debt! So how are the new buildings really helping the student!

Business and the corruption of Capitalism following hard on the fall of the other corruption Communism caused this mess. The US Government watching but doing nothing about worthless mortgages were sold all over the world. The world expects the US government to pull it's weight with other countries at getting it's economy under control. This is the worst mess since the Great Depression. If you dont know what that may mean for the USA and te rest fo the world, then get some old newspapers and DVD's of old film. It was a terrible time and the people suffered terribly. It's going to take more than spending to get the economy to turn around, it is going to take some major changes about how people go about their business. Corruption will need to be faced up to everywhere.

It may not completely fix the situation but it is a good start. One person's "pork" are other peoples jobs and health care. It may not be the best situation but without people working it's going to get alot worse (no jobs = no tax revenue = further cuts which excelorates the downward spiral). Let's pray for those who continue to loose their jobs at an alarming rate. I believe this mornings jobless numbers were the highest since 1974.

Stimulants that produce nothing is called "make work" or "pork". It does not stimulate the economy but drives it deeper toward depression. Funny money is still funny money. $500 of this new funny money may buy a loaf of bread but why is that an improvement?

CDL

Did you ever see the movie, "Soylent Green"?

I have a question. I have opened my local newspaper each AM and saw Gov Rell making large "cuts" to the state budget. How does slashing the budget (eliminating 23 state agencies and slashing construction spending) stimulate the economy? Those additional thousands of people who are now going to be unemployed will not spend, will take from unemployment and social services and will not be able to give back in the short term. It is only common sence that so called Pork is necessary spending to assist people during this troubled time. It's time to get off the failed "Right-Wing Soap Boxes" in this country and look at reality on the ground. (CDL this is not aimed at you exclusively but all those who pontificate about what is best for others as well.)



$500 for a loaf of bread??? The reality of the current situation is that there is not concern of inflation. Our biggest threat is the continuing de-flation...


Well that's my rant for the morning.
Job

Congress REQUIRED Fannie Mae and Freddie MAC and many banks to give mortgages to people who could not qualify to pay them. It created the problem. Congress TOLD the people buying these mortgages that they were good investments and would make money. Greed is involved here but the main cause of the problem is Congress. Capitalism is self-correcting over time.

Most government jobs are non-productive. That means we spend a lot of tax $ for people who do not produce anything. Using the recession to get rid of useless government agencies makes a lot of sense. If only President Obama would reduce the ranks of the federal government by half we could cut government spending and give that money back to the tax payers.

The stimulus bill won’t stimulate anything. Only $29 billion is slated to be spent in 2009. The other $800 billion is down the road a few years with the bulk of it going as reward to the various groups that supported Democrats in the last election.

What the President and Congress are doing is the equivalent of you digging yourself out of an economic hole by going on a spending spree that maxes out your credit cards. The result is always the same. You wind up in a bigger hole. Japan tried these spending bills 8 times in the 1990s and none of them worked. The United States tried it with the New Deal and it didn’t work. We tried it again in the 1960s and the 1970s and it didn’t work. We tried it again last spring with small cash payment to most Americans. It didn’t work. We tried it with a $150 billion stimulus bill in September. It didn’t work. Spending $800 billion over the next 4-6 years will not work.

All the spending bill does is to move money out of the hands of businesses and individuals (the people that create jobs) and give it to the government to spend on pork projects.

Here’s a really good article that explains this:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg2186.cfm

If a company would be faced with bureaucratic controls, including salary floors and caps, when they take federal money, why don't they just say no?

A number of banks tried to say no to the first bailout. The feds forced them to take the money. A lot of the smaller banks that did not make those risky loans are in solid shape and are not taking any bailout money. They all have money to lend.

They'd be better off not taking the money. If a business is run into the ground it deserves to be failed. It should not be allowed to become an eternal money pit for taxpayer dollars.

Did you hear President Obama last night? He said if Congress does not pass the pork spending bill right now that America will never recover from the recession. If you leave a recession alone the country will recover. It always happens. Capitalism is self-correcting.

I heard the fear mongering second-hand. The same line was used before the last spending bill was passed, and we're in no better shape. Socialism assures poverty, by keeping the downtrodden down or bringing those who rise above to level.

Yep. While we are going to be over populated we may wind up eating our children and our elderly.

CDL

To a point which we've exceeded greatly a government worker is necessary. But we are well beyond that point. Now the more people work for the government the poorer we become as a nation. Government workers by definition neither produce anything nor do they know how to produce anything. If they did they would not work for the government but would work for industry.

CDL

Dan,

Are your last two students really fair? I don't necessarily disagree with the assertion that our government has become too large and that we probably should look to eliminate some government jobs. However, your last comments seem a bit harsh. There are many people who have government jobs who provide needed services. Some of them actually are bright and talented people.

Ryan

Ryan,

You have presented a riddle I cannot penetrate. What do my students have to do with anything? Moreover, "service" is not "industry".

CDL