www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall What they think about us here...

Glory to God for every bit of suffering we endure in His name - be it mental, physical or spiritual. Glory to Him who gives us faith and power to continue our march on His path. Glory to the Shepherd who never forgets His lost sheep.


> They claim that Christians and the Church in specific do not admit that the Holocaust had ever happened. That's why Channel 10 on one of its most popular satiric shows decided to explain to Christians what Zion thinks of Christianity on national television.

Those who do not know yet, ALL CONTENT on Israeli TV goes through censorship - so the government controls everything that goes on national TV. Moreover, anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist content are outlawed - but Christianity, as many of us here know first hand, can and should be mocked over and over till people here actually believe what they see on TV.

The content and movie (Article - Arabic, Show - Hebrew):
http://www.alarab.co.il/view.php?sel=00118296
(I translated some parts of the parts - the way things were said were not sarcastic, but demeaning)

"They tell you that Holy Mary [our Holy mother] was a virgin, but as we know this is a lie; proof to that is that when John the baptist stuck two fingers in her waist she did not jump. In addition, had she been a real virgin she wouldn't have shown sex toys at a [show].... She got pregnant at the age of 15 from one of her classmates ... and she was left by her parents in a football court to end up having spend the night in a hotel with the Canaan football team..."

I will not go on - as I think this manuscript is overwhelming
as it is.

This, by the way, is only the second part of a daily series on "The Truth About Christianity" - in the last episode the claim was Jesus did not walk on water because he was too fat and Sunday is a holy day as it is Jesus'-on-diet day.


Well -
I guess this lent is going to be challenging indeed!

Lord have Mercy,
elijah

What could you expect from a country that passed an anti-missionary law on Christmas Day 1977 making it a crime punishable by up to 5 years in prison for any Gentile attempting to proselytize a Jew away from there religion.

Eli,

Thank you for sharing this with us. I know it can be very hard at times to love your enemies.

This came to mind immediately:

Peace,
Deacon Richard

Eli,

God bless you and I keep you all in my prayers. Funny how the U.S. has such a lopsided pro-Israeli foreign policy and how there are even fundamentalist protestant Christians in the US raising money for Israeli families; while they totally ignore their Christian brothers and sisters.

We have to understand that modern Israel is not the true Israel.Their hatred and venom comes from the rejection of God's revelation in Jesus Christ. St. Paul is very clear that a veil has been put over their eyes and so they now walk blindly, believing that they can attain righteousness through the works of the law, rather than through faith in Christ (see Romans 9-11).

This is why modern Israel and modern Judaism are not ancient Israel. The Church is the true Israel and the Jews will be grafted back into the covenant of grace when they finally accept Jesus Christ as their messiah. This is why we need to continually pray for the Jews that their eyes will be opened and that they will repent of their unbelief and finally embrace their messiah. We must be patient and many of us must endure persecutions at the hands of the world. God bless all of you who are suffering persecution and may God keep your hearts in peace and love. God bless.

Joe

P.S. I am NOT anti-semitic, nor anti-Jew. In Christ there is now no Jew or Greek. But we must distinguish being a Jew in the biblical sense from being a follower of Judaism. St. Paul is very clear that the true Jews (the elect of God) are those who have faith in Christ and that there is no salvation in trying to keep the Law.

Do you encounter any troubles, being a Christian?

Brother Joe, thank you for your prayers, it does bring me comfort.

Dear Terry,
I guess you mean the following:
1- Private Christian schools do not receive proper funds form the government like private Jewish schools. We are obliged to teach a certain (dictated) syllabus which, not surprisingly, has nothing to do with Christian history/heritage/identity/teaching etc. On the other hand we are obliged to study Jewish history and teachings from the Zionist perspective.
2- Politics are forced into the Church even to the extent of "who will last longer as a Bishop," they even have a book documenting this issue (among many other things) called "Good Arabs, Bad Arabs" (Hebrew). Old Churches do not receive governmental funds to be renovated even when they are declared as "historical buildings" (synagogues and even mosques do receive renovation/expansion/building funds). In the ministry of Religions there are no Christian representatives (Muslims have so do Jews of course) and no governmental funds is therefore passed to Christians. Offensive actions are constantly repeated to Church property and Churches - only a few weeks ago the Government tried to cut off the last standing building (a Church) in a village that was diminished back in 48 called Eqreth.
3- Christian villages are being slowly stuffed with non-Christians and the law there is maintained by the local non-Christians. That is how we witness at least one big Muslim or Druz riots against Christians (usually over very silly things) which the government and police blink an eye on and does not interfere until too late.

This is only part of the systematic "troubles" we endure.
Needless to say that the movie reflects the nature of the non-Christians here (with exceptions!) and the way they see us.

In my discussions with many Melkites, especially those who were from Palestine, I learned that the Israelis have systematically taken measures to kick out the Christians, leaving only Muslim peasants, who are inclined to violent reaction. According to my friends, the Israelis want the Muslims there to drum up sympathy from the U.S. Also, a real problem here in the U.S. is that most Christians are evangelicals and they do not see Catholics and Orthodox as being true Christians and brothers and sisters in Christ. At the same time, these Christians believe that one must unconditionally support the modern secular state of Israel as if they were the chosen people. You will never hear any of this on U.S. news shows of course.

We eastern Christians, Orthodox and Catholic, need to support our brothers in the holy land and we need to step up to the plate and educate Americans about the real state of things in Israel, especially the systematic persecution of Christians and the terrorist tactics of the Israeli military.

Joe

Dear Joe,

I agree - I mentioned that in my third point - I have many points to add - but I didn't want to whine too long I guess.

Respects,
Eli

Interesting and thought provoking, Joe. I have read and heard similar things from members of the Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholics recently. I will have to think on this.

-- John

The U.S.'s unqualified support for Israel, from both conservative and liberal circles, is quite troublesome to me. As earlier posters mentioned, it seems to based off of a certain type of Protestantism that sees the modern Jews as somehow still living withing a binding covenant with God, as His Chosen People, something I find quite contradictory to Sacred Scripture and Holy Tradition.

In the end, I don't like it for exactly that reason: it is based off of a lack of (or misunderstanding of) a basic Christian belief that the Old Covenant is null and void, if you will, and that in Jesus Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek.

Alexis

Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

Here is some interesting news for the group.

Fush BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

Catholics Decry Anti-Christianity in Israel
Protest "Horrible Offenses" on TV

JERUSALEM, FEB. 19, 2009 (Zenit.org).- Leaders of the Catholic Church in the Holy Land are condemning the "revolting attacks" against Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary, broadcast by Israel's Channel 10 television.

A joint communiqué issued Wednesday explains, "In these days, during a night show on Channel 10, a series of horrible offenses were launched against our faith and consequently against us, Christians."

The communiqué was signed by the Latin patriarch of Jerusalem and the Franciscan custos of the Holy Land, among others.

"The show directed its attacks to the holiest figures of our Christian belief in an attempt, as the director of the show himself specifically declared, to destroy Christianism," the communiqué stated.

"Channel 10 was used to desecrate the holiest figures of Christianism offending hundreds of thousands of Christian Israeli citizens and of many millions of Christians all over the world as well," the Catholic leaders lamented.

Channel 10 began its activities in 2002.

The Catholic leaders contended that the program was "a symptom of greater problems disturbing the society, such as intolerance, refusal to accept and respect the other and inherent hatred."

And they said that the program comes in a series of attacks on Christians in Israel over the years. They cited an occurrence from a few months ago, when "copies of the New Testament were publicly burned in the yard of a synagogue in Or Yehuda."

The statement expressed appreciation for the many Christians, Muslims and Jews who "were themselves shocked and appalled, and expressed their dismay and protest at this fact."

The leaders contended that "such programs have nothing to do with freedom of expression, art and entertainment. They can only work against national integration and harmony in our society."

Well stated

Metropolitan-Archbishop Joseph (Raya) of holy memory was calling this problem to our attention from the time of his consecration to the episcopate. May his prayers continue to assist us.

Fr. Serge

Shlomo Elijah,

I believe that my post Catholics Decry Anti-Christianity in Israel should be merged here. What really gets to me is that our fellow Catholics and Orthodox also ignore us, and we share the same traditions.

Of course when we oppose Israel, we are anti-Semites (which is funny since we are Semites), but we need to press on.

Fush BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

To follow up with this point here is what Haaretz [haaretz.com] has to say.

Fush BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

Survey: Most Jewish Israelis do not want more churches in Jerusalem

By Nadav Shragai

The vast majority of Israeli Jews does not have negative feelings toward Christians living in Israel, but nearly the same proportion believes the state should not allow land to be used for constructing new churches in Jerusalem, according to a study published Thursday.

The survey, carried out by the Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies and the Jerusalem Center for Jewish-Christian Relations, 74 percent of respondents do not see Christians as "missionaries," and 76 percent are not bothered by encountering a Christian wearing a cross. Furthermore, 41 percent believe Christianity is the closest religion to Judaism, with Islam coming second at 32 percent.

However, the study suggested that most Israeli Jews are considerably less tolerant when Jerusalem is concerned. Only 50 percent of the sample agreed that Jerusalem was central to the Christian faith, and 75 percent believe the state should not allow Christian organizations to purchase land to construct new churches in the city. The survey noted sharp divisions between secular and religious Jews. Eighty percent of secular Jews believe they are allowed to enter churches, and even visited churches when abroad, while 83 percent of religious Jews believe visiting churches is forbidden. Seventy-eight percent of religious Jews believe Christianity is "idol worship," while 66 percent of secular Jews disagree.

Furthermore, 56 percent of secular Jews believe that Christian soldiers in the Israel Defense Forces should be allowed to use the New Testament for giving the oath, but 62 percent of religious Jews think only the Torah should be used.

The survey was conducted by Dr. Amnon Ramon among a sample of 500 men and women, believed to be representative of the adult Jewish population within Israel.