www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Drift away from religion in America

Bob, I actually think what you're saying is complimentary to my statement and not opposed to it. Faith is a two way street. I remember reading an article that quoted Cardinal Kasper. It says


http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=540

I think his comparison to the experience of Luther, and his crisis brought about by the weight of sin, as compared to our general outlook is very true.

It has been a couple of years now since I read it...it is my favorite Orthodox book.

Ofcourse you and Bob are both correct in your responses. Don't mind me...

I guess what I was alluding to was like a straightforward interview or article in a secular news magazine with someone who was deprived of religion, so that all the world could see and read it...but I don't think *that* will ever happen!!

AMM:

I think you're right about this. Pope John Paul II of thrice blessed memory called for this same thing some time before the new millenium began.

We have to rethink how we present the Gospel because for many people it has become irrelevant; for others, just so much myth; and still others, hate speech.

I think what I am referring to is the idea that our "touchy, feely" attitude in this current culture that puts man in the center of the universe and his demand for satisfaction of his needs, wants, and feelings is at odds with what Christianity is all about. There are some things we cannot explain and maybe we ought not to try. The problem with this is that with a faith gift it is difficult to accept; without one, it seems to be absurd. We have gone to great lengths to avoid and diminish pain, whether psychological, emotional, or physical and then we have Christianity coming along and speaking in terms of fasting and ascesis. We're speaking a language that no longer has a translation in the culture.

And this applies to believers, too. The new convert or the man with a suddenly realized faith gift is on fire with the newness. Then the second period sets in: the period of dryness when it seems that the bloom is off the rose and the real work of being a believer sets in. That's when people become discouraged and sometimes fall away. That's when the newbie discovers that the church is full of people who'd rather just slide along or who are constantly fighting or who are less than excited with it all. That's when self-doubt sets in for the newly activated believer or convert.

Let me add a personal note. I've had periods of struggle to stay on course like I've jsut described. Sometimes my pilgrimage has been a roler coaster with periods of intensity that defy description--when I can't get enough prayer time or Church reading or attendance. And then there are times when it's so dry I can't pray or pick up the Scripture or even look at an icon. There are times when the abrasive nature of living and working with other Christians in my own parish or in the larger community just becomes more than I can take and I want to eith chuck it all or retire as a hermit. It takes faith and sometimes just a silent reaching upward wordlessly toward Heaven in an act of self sacrifice. Because when I'm at my lowest points, I remember the words of St. Peter, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of everlasting life."

BOB

This is a trend that has been noted in a number of western countries (Australia included here). People used to be at least nominaly attached to a denomination. The figures have been slowly rising where people put themselves down as being of no faith at all.

Why? As Bob said, more people find the Gospel to be irrelevant, myth or hate speech. Why? And what can we do to correct that?

Far worse they are indifferent. What ever they previously put on their census forms as their nominal faith they realy dont care about. God plays no part in these people's lives. God is an optional extra they have no need for in their lives. These people have always been there only now they dont hide behind a nominal claim to a link with a faith they dont in fact believe in.

There are several reasons why America is drifting away from our religious values and from Christ. I will concentrate on one of those reasons. Education! "A Good Education is the Citadel of Democracy" In my opinion through the 70s till now technology(which was supposed to supplement education) has supplanted it. Students are getting lazier because they have computers and techno gadgets doing the work for them. Learning the basics in math, reading and grammar is important in building a knowledge base as well as the brain needs to be exercised! More important than technology the average parent has, through various reasons,required less academic discipline from their children.

How does education tie into religion drifting away from America? Well, those of us who watch mainstream TV entertainment like Politically Incorrect with Bill Mahar or South Park, Family Guy,hear about clergy abuse, ect... there are some good sounding arguments against religion! A well rounded individual won't just latch on to the first good argument he or she hears, further investigation is needed. My argument is we need to have more well rounded(educated) individuals who can sift the good from the bad in all they see.
Phil D.

By reading this post you can tell I have been "affected" by our modern educational culture! I am working on it!

JOHN:

Why? Do you think it has had anything to do with various liberal interpretations of Scripture coming out of 19th century Biblical exegesis methods? We've had "scholars" tell us that

1. the Gospels do not contain what Jesus really said,
2. that passages about homosexuality are hate speech,
3. that Jesus didn't really rise form the dead, but that His Presence after His death was what the Apostles "felt,"
4. that much of the Scripture is culturally bound so it has little or no relevance to us today,

and on and on for the last century and a half, but especially in the last 45 years. Look at the so-called Jesus Seminar that has taken the attitude that they can find the "historical Jesus" by dissecting the Scriptures. And look at the theories they've come up with.

Then there's the historic-critical method so well-received today. Rome has recently tried to temper the uncritical use of this but we still hear sermons about how we have newly "discovered" things about the early Christian communities, the early Church, and the "true" meaning of the Gospels that so often flies in the face of the received Tradition. So often one hears things that go "clunk" in the head.

So find the Gospel irrelevant? Just listen to the preachers who try to remake the whole, watch them be sloppy liturgists, observe them making light of solemn and sacred moments and wonder why people would rather go with "St. Mattress" on Sunday morning than "St. John's (or St. whoever else). And when regular practice has become already something one "doesn't have to do" all week--what's left?

I've observed Catholic and Protestant homes in which I have been privileged to work in the last 43 years and I can tell you that there is less and less evidence of regular Christian practice in homes that claim to be at least nominal. If finding a crucifix or cross or Bible or prayerbook or even a little slip of paper on a refrigerator door with the phone numbers for one's clergy were evidence, most people would be hard pressed to make a claim that anyone could take seriously. And how about someone who claims to membership in a parish or church but who does not know that the pastor they want was transferred 10 years ago?

Sorry for the rant.

BOB

Not a rant; food for thought . . .