www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall 'The Way Miss California Answered Her Question Lost Her The Crown

This question should never have been asked at a pagent like this. It is totally ridiculous. And, to think that someone was able to make the decision. This woman is entitled to her opinion and just because it doesn't agree with some, she gave the right answer...well shut up rose.

LAS VEGAS, Nev. -- Miss North Carolina Kristen Dalton may have been crowned Miss USA 2009 on Sunday, but on Monday, it was Miss California Carrie Prejean's answer to a question about same-sex marriage from celebrity blogger and pageant judge Perez Hilton that was the night's biggest story.

During the show, Perez asked Carrie, "Vermont recently became the fourth state to legalize same sex marriage. Do you think every state should follow suit? Why or why not?"

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"Well I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. Um, we live in a land that you can choose same sex marriage or opposite marriage and, you know what, in my country and in, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman," Carrie said to a mix of boos and applause. "No offense to anybody out there. But that's how I was raised and that's how I think that it should be between a man and a woman."

Carrie's answer to the hot button question cost her the crown - at least according to Perez.

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"The way miss California answered her question lost her the crown, without a doubt!" Perez told Access Hollywood after the pageant. "Never before that I'm aware of has a contestant been booed at Miss USA."

Keith Lewis, Co-Executive Director of the Miss California USA and Miss California Teen USA said in statement to Access Hollywood that he respects Carrie's opinion, even if it differs with his.

"I am proud of Carrie Prejean's beauty and placement at the 2009 Miss USA pageant. I support Carrie's right to express her personal beliefs even if they do not coincide with my own," Keith told Access. "I believe the subject of gay marriage deserves a great deal more conversation in order to heal the divide it has created."

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PerezHilton.com initially reported that Keith was "personally saddened and hurt" by Carrie's comments. Keith told Access he did not release a statement to the celebrity blogger.

A rep for Shanna Moakler , who inherited the Miss USA title in 1995 when Miss USA Chelsi Smith was crowned Miss Universe, told Perez that she "supports Keith's views 100%."

On Monday morning, Miss California talked to Billy Bush for "The Billy Bush Show" and Access Hollywood. To listen to Billy's interview where Carrie revealed that a member of her family is a gay rights activist, CLICK HERE!
http://omg.yahoo.com/news/perez-hil...her-question-lost-her-the-crown/21528?nc

I agree with you Pani Rose.

This is just one more example, perhaps, of how Christian belief is being persecuted in this country. It is sad.

Perhaps today's persecuted do not face death of body as the martyrs of the USSR and of the Roman Empire did for *believing* in Christ, but they face death of livelihood for believing in Christian principles.

Alice

The homosexualists are grinding away at decency and religious freedom. I suppose one could say "no one needs to be in a beauty pageant" but this is just one in thousands of examples of the way we are being attacked by the pagan world.

CDL

Miss California can be my Miss USA because she was brave enough to stand up there on that stage in front of millions of people and stand up for what is right. She knew her answer would probably be unpopular and she said it anyway. Good for her! Perez Hilton really irks me. I can't stand his rag of a website and that's all I'm going to say about that.

I disagree.

Not winning a beauty pageant is not persecution. Also, not winning a beauty contest is not the same thing as being prevented from earning a living. I'm sure that Miss California has many more job prospects than Miss Palestinian Christian.

Conservative Christianity is now a minority view in America. That means it is not the prevalent view -- so conservative Christians who are vocal about their views on controversial subjects probably aren't going to win beauty contests. But it also means that conservative Christianity is a tolerated minority view (among many others) -- so we are not being persecuted.

We are being tolerated but disregarded. We are not the dominant group anymore. We are a minority group within a larger and superficially Christian culture.

If we feel that we have an inherent right to be in the dominant position of society, then being merely tolerated might feel like being persecuted. But it's not persecution.

The real issue is: How shall conservative Christians live in a society in which they are a minority?

Giving a public witness that was sure to be rejected, like Miss California did, is noteworthy and even laudable.

Complaining that the expected consequences happened -- secular disapproval and losing a beauty pageant-- is not productive, and it is a lot like whining. Instead, we need to *expect* that kind of reception for our views and to prepare for it.

Conservative Christians should serve as missionaries to our own culture. We should imagine that we are missionaries to a strange and secular nation -- because that is what we are now.

To have a deep impact, then, we have to bear a deep witness. And that will not always be welcomed. But disagreement or even disapproval from the larger culture is not persecution. And we have to be able to make the distinction in order to be effective.

-- John

I am bold enough to suggest that a so-called "beauty contest" is itself inappropriate, in general and especially for Christians. The very idea of "judging" women as though they were horses on parade, and having the women submitting to this absurd process wearing rather less than ordinary modesty would suggest is abhorrent. There is nothing wrong with wearing a (decent) bathing suit in a place where people swim - but even then we quite properly deplore the conduct of people who stare and leer at those who are swimming. For women to parade on stage to invite such spectators to stare and leer at them is unspeakable.

CHRIST IS RISEN!

Fr. Serge

Amen, Padre.

Father, bless. I agree, I hate the idea of beauty pageants; I think pageants for children are the worst though.

I agree. I remember watching them as a child -back when TV fist came about in black and white - and being in awe of the women. That is then, this is now. We put away childish things.

I have come across those pagents for kids on the TV. Oh, my! To subject a child to that, to me in many ways, is cruelty. A child will live what you teach them. I can't imagine the confusion that child faces when they would really rather be outside playing in the sandbox than on a stage getting googled and geered. So very sad!

Still, the fact is she was there, and that question was really not appropriate. The fact that the pagent no longer seems to have the national recognition it once did, and is under the 'authority' of who knows who. I guess it is to be expected. All in all, it really was a purposeful political question. And as expected by those involved, gave them additional sounding boards for the heritical speeches. Sadly, they have been in this state so long they no longer can sense the lie that has taken place about them. God have mercy on us all. May we, along with God's holy angels and saints intercede for people who have fallen or never knew Christ, and bring them to fruition in Christ Jesus.

Of course the question was inappropriate - but since the organizers had the bad taste and poor judgement to organize such an event, there is no cause for shock that they would have the bad taste and poor judgement to permit such a question (which certainly has no possible connection with
"MIss California's" pulchritude or lack thereof).

Fr. Serge

Why was the question inappropriate? On the one it's wrong to have women parade on a stage to be viewed as objects, but it's also wrong to ask them a question about a serious current topic?

I imagine that it is inappropriate because it is, by its expectations, a loaded question. But so are the questions that would allude to "world peace", if such questions enter the field and the contestant answers that she hopes that all dictatorships are crushed so that freedom will reign through the strength of arms. That may get boos and gasps too, and definitely not a win.

I am not a fan of beauty contests. No answer to the questions can be as profound as they are presented to be. It's like high school debate as far as meaning is concerned.

I am surprised by Miss California's answer. The trouble came for her because she broke protocol and stated her opinion rather than resign herself to the expectation, which "all good ladies" should do.

Yes I do. It is to be about the work they see that needs to be done, how they would handle certain works. I think the question was a 'set up'. Sorry, but it makes me angry. It is just another case of homosexual agenda being played out. There are many other things that are important in this world, children for one. Why not ask something about them?

Well, I think that this whole 'pageant' thing is very much a part of American culture...

I think that the question was inappropriate, because it is almost obvious what answer was expected to be heard, and how it would impact the contestant. I agree with Pani Rose TOTALLY--it was indeed as set up to promote the 'gay agenda' and to punish those who do not go along with it.

Since the contestant is there to win for the sake of school scholarship or future career, it is kind of sad *for her* that she would need to be put in that kind of a situation.

On a related and silly sidenote:

This is silly, but our Archdiocese youth groups around the country (GOYA) hold or used to hold 'pageants' for Miss GOYA of certain geographic areas--The girls wear gowns, have escorts and answer questions while representing the youth group of their 'parish'....so you guessed it, when I was 15, though I could have cared less, I was voted and coaxed by the rest of the group to be the representive of our parish. The question of the night was "what adult do you admire the most". Every girl answered "my mother", and while I love my mother, I honestly answered "Archbishop Iakovos" (because I really, really did admire him with youthful idealization at the time for the strides he had made in putting my jurisdiction on the map, marching with Martin Luther King, etc., etc...) Since my family wasn't into church politics, I had no idea what the church 'political winds' of that particular time were...

Yup, they were against him!!

I was totally politically incorrect and scandalous in my answer! They probably thought I responded like that on purpose!!

The crowd of adults that were gathered there could be heard quietly gasping in anger, and needless to say, I did NOT win!! LOL!

(So much the better, as far as I was concerned)...but it just goes to show you how a 'politically incorrect' answer could have devastated me if I had cared to be there and had cared to win...

As an adult, I see all this as folly. Like Pani Rose, however, as a little girl I was enthralled by watching the beautiful and graceful women represent states and countries in televised pageants...

Alice

Alice what an awesome story. I can see now, how it is good for you to be a moderator here, at 15 you were going against the tide.

This was posted on Fox News, she may well be busier now, than if she had been crowned...

Exclusive: Carrie Prejean Says 'God Was Testing My Faith' With Gay Marriage Question

Monday , April 20, 2009


Carrie Prejean is the most famous runner-up in Miss USA history.

In an exclusive interview with FOXNews.com's Courtney Friel, Miss California says her phone has been ringing off the hook with people offering her support after she took on a question about gay marriage on Sunday night's Miss USA telecast.

"I have no regrets about answering [judge Perez Hilton] honestly," she said in one of her first interviews following the show, where she answered that she was against gay marriage becoming legal in California. "He asked me for my opinion and I gave it to him. I have nothing against gay people and I didn't mean to offend anyone in my answer."

In her interview, Prejean talks about being "tested" by God, the outpouring of support, and the first thing she and her family did after the show. (Hint, it involves ketchup and mustard.)

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,517228,00.html

Alice,

That is quite the story!

To David's point about whether it is wrong to ask them a question about a serious current topic, I would only say - what relevance does that topic have to anything pertaining to the Miss America pageant or to the "role" of Miss America?

But as I mentioned, I agree with Father Serge's view on this completely...

I read that article on FoxNews. I also did a little journalistic research and checked out the headline for this story on another site. CNN's read "Anti-gay marriage answer rocks pageant". MSNBC didn't really have a headline for it but they interviewed Perez Hilton about how he felt about her answer, since he was the one to ask the question. I just think it is interesting how different news sources choose to spin a story.

In the Ancient world physical beauty was a thing of admiration...there is a difference between that and viewing beauty as an 'object' of inappropriate thoughts. I believe that these American pageants started in that vain.

They evolved to being competitions for 'wholesome representatives' of a state, a country, an organization, etc...AS such, their views are supposed to be representative of the ethos of whatever it is they are running to represent.

I am glad that she is not cowering in fear over potential death threats and hate mail, which others faced in taking a stand on that position.

"In the Ancient world physical beauty was a thing of admiration...there is a difference between that and viewing beauty as an 'object' of inappropriate thoughts. I believe that these American pageants started in that vain."

If a man finds himself overly distracted by a woman's looks, it is healthy for him to ask himself whether he is being honest when saying that he is "admiring her beauty". I find that such an attitude, or excuse, sweetens temptation even if certain thoughts are not entertained.

Terry

Terry,

I hear you, and this is going to sound wierd, but the other women here can vouch for it...women admire grace and beauty (in a pure way/NOT in a 'gay agenda' way) of other women.

Probably because we have been conditioned this way.

Infact, I would bet to say that more women watch these pageants than men!! LOL!

Also, students of art, (which I was) whether male or female, learn to view and appreciate beauty in a non-sexualized way.

Ofcourse, the Ancients carried it to the extreme of idolatry. That is, as we know, is a grave sin..

Alice

The beauty queen also went on Billy Bush's radio show on Monday, saying she believes her comment on gay marriage "cost me my crown," but she "wouldn't have had it any other way. I said what I feel."

She also went on to say that "my sister is a second lieutenant in the Air Force and she is a gay rights activist."

Following suit, Hilton went on a media spree on Monday, making appearances on MSNBC as well as CNN's 'Larry King Live,' (full video here) arguing against Prejean's point of view. Following the show, he called her a "dumb b----" on his Twitter page, and though he apologized for it, later rescinded the apology.

www.aol.com [aol.com]

How sad and pathetic.

I don't make personal judgments about who goes to Heaven and Hell (and that includes sweet granny so-and-so who passed away last week and everyone assumes is in Heaven).

But, it's funny that I did mention to a friend just yesterday, before learning any of this, that if I had to make a list, people like Perez Hilton would be at the top. I actually mentioned him by name just because of his notoriety, but I went on to explain that I think that people whose profession it is to say hurtful, degrading, and mean-spirited things about other people, well...I just don't see how one can live that sort of life and expect an eternal reward.

Alexis

There are so many factors here:
1. Technically, these contests are supposed to be "scholarship competitions," so loss of contest because the judges disagreed with her views would constitute a violation of equal opportunity.
HOWEVER,
2. Had they said she lost because of the *way* she expressed her view: a very awkward, wishy-washy and inarticulate statement that managed to offend both sides of the issue "I think it's great people have the freedom to choose on this, but I'm personally opposed"--I'd have said, "Yes, she deserved to lose."
3. It strikes me that they're basically admitting that the pageants are run by gay men. One fellow quoted by FOX News claimed that 95% of the audience is gay.
This raises *many* issues in and of itself:
a. Why do men who supposedly aren't interested in women run a "beauty pageant"?
b. If "Miss America" and "Miss USA" are the standards of what is considered female beauty (yet there is that whole chart that came out several years ago that compares the winners of Miss America over 50+ years to the WHO's starvation index, and how for the past several years, they've been far below it), why are those "standards" being set by homosexuals? Yes, there is a certain beauty to the "supermodel look", and yes, it is also arousing at some level. But I have always found it, in the true meaning of the term, un-attractive. Being all bony and emaciated and "statuesque" makes a woman look, well, like a statue.

4. I agree in principle with what Fr. Serge says, but I also think that
a) the fact that we *do* have this pageant institution gives it--with freedom of speech--a great way for women to have a voice. Look at that one EWTN hostess and former beauty queen. Last year, the winner of Miss Teen Maine USA was a Marfan, and she's done some good work for Marfan syndrome awareness. (I for one would never have expected a Marf to win a beauty pageant--at least until I saw my eldest daughter--but my wife disagrees!).
b) I believe that a *healthy* admiration for the human body is an important aspect of virtue. But it's a thin line.

Okay, so because of this thread, I finally decided to learn about that perez Hilton fellow (honestly, I had heard the name, but had no idea who this person was). I'm a bit confused. If the Miss America pageant is such a high-class honorary thing for bright, young woman, then how did a sleazebag like Hilton get himself on the judges' panel? And what accomplishments does this person have besides being on a crusade to "out" people he thinks are gay?

I, too, think that beauty pageants are sinful exercises in frivolous vanity. But it is surprising to see that the most honored of the pageants chooses such sleazy (and unaccomplished) people to be judge.

I find the whole concept of "beauty pageants" to be just this side of repulsive, judging women on superficial merits and surgical augmentations. That being said, doesn't anyone else find it odd that a self-admitted homosexual like Mr/Ms Hilton was appointed judge of a female beauty pageant? Kind of like having a rabbi judge a bacon/kolbasi cook-off.

Alexandr

LOL...yes, homosexual men have always liked to fancy themselves as objective judges and experts on women and their fashion and beauty--in hair salons, in fashion design, in woman's makeup!!! They are attracted to this sort of thing like bees to honey...

I agree with the repulsiveness of surgical augmentation one sees in beauty pageants today...It is sad, pathetic, and sinful because of its intention. This type of plastic surgery is very different from plastic surgery to correct deformities. Swimsuit (if one can call bandaids worn today as swimsuits!) competitions are utterly degrading and totally unnecessary.

Alice

Saw the headline about the pageant the other night and said to my wife, "Huh, I guess that was tonight." Stopped watching them years ago because they're downright boring.

Lotta blather about it here, though.

Mercifully, I have never attended a "beauty contest" or similar event, nor do I have the slightest intention of doing so.

However, I do have two reports of some slight interest:

Back in the nineteen-sixties, when the colonels had come to power in Greece, they actually had the effrontery to stage a "Miss Christ is Born" beauty contest in the Hotel Grand Bretagne, Syntagma, Athens, a short walk from the Greek Orthodox Cathedral, on the New Calendar Vigil of the Nativity of Our Lord - with the result that, as one newspaper put it, "while the chanters were intoning "Today the Virgin gives birth" in the cathedral, government ministers were admiring the not-too-virginal charms of the contestants". This bit of blasphemy caused a thunderstorm of protest; the "Miss Christ is Born" beauty contest has not been repeated.

The Soviet Union never held beauty contests until the end was drawing near, and then those in charge didn't quite know the drill. They announced their "beauty contest" in a big theatre in Moscow and invited - imagine this - an Orthodox Bishop to be one of the judges! The bishop, erroneously but understandably, assumed that this would be an exhibition of objets d'art or something of that sort, arrived, dressed as a bishop with his subdeacon to attend him, and took his seat with the other judges, waiting to view the exhibition of objets d'art.

Well, there was no lack of "exhibitions", but they were not, shall we say, what His Grace was expecting. He turned beet red, grabbed his staff, and fled from the theater!

Fr. Serge

'Saw the headline about the pageant the other night and said to my wife, "Huh, I guess that was tonight." Stopped watching them years ago because they're downright boring.'

I didn't even get that far. First I knew about it was here. I have the same reaction against the Oscars and the Academy Awards.

ehem ...

here's an interesting point to consider:
since when was "beauty queen competitions" anything close to Christian teachings the first place?

I cannot even imagine any possible way of presenting such a "beauty contest" as a Christian event.

The Oscars are something I don't particularly care to watch - I seldom like the films that they do - but at least in principle, making a good film is a genuine service to the public and recognizing such an achievement is neither unreasonable nor scandalous.

Unfortunately for me, I have pale Irish skin and I can get sunburned in the middle of the night. Unfortunately for everyone, the damage that has been done to the ozone layer makes sunbathing a dangerous exercise. If you are going to the beach, put on plenty of sunblock, swim, and get out of the sun! Better yet, find a nice, pleasant indoor pool.

Enjoy!

Fr. Serge

The only *real* problem with swimming is that you get wet

A few thoughts:
1) She is being criticized for "pushing her agenda." Why has no such thing been said about those who asked a political question with a "correct" answer?

2) That clown made news here when he used his free celebrity tickets to blather live insults about a show here, resulting int the egomaniac on stage directing a foul-mouthed tirade from the stage. (What did he expect? His show has yet to get a single positive review, and is becoming known as "Cirque de Flopp". I overheard tourists on the bus complaining about it ["all about his ego", "pieces just didn't go together"] and knew immediately where they'd just been).

3) The original Miss America contest featured local girls, and the point was to extend the tourist season another week in Atlantic City. Swimsuits, yes, but reasonably modest for the period.

4) I have fond memories of the Simpsons episode in which Lisa entered beauty contests. OK, all I remember is Bart telling her, "Lisa, this is the hardest thing a brother can ever have to say to his sister, but (gulp, stammer, hesitate) you're not ugly." [And its the bits like that that make me love the show.]

5) When the international pork exposition was still held in Des Moines, IA, they actually crowned a "Pork Queen." (Of all the "beauty titles to have . . ."). The year before I got there, she made national news for throwing pies *back* at the PETA protesters. They called that "disrespectful." Yes, these were the same pies they'd just thrown; she didn't have any of her own.

hawk

I heard her on Sean Hannity radio show today in the car. I heard what she said. She is a devout Christian who said that she initially floundered because she knew it would cost her the crown, but then decided that she could not sacrifice her Christian point of view for anything, even the title she wanted so badly, so she gave her opinion.

Apparently, this Perez Hilton guy has been publicly calling her the most crass and offensive terms one could possibly imagine anyone calling a member of the female sex. At first, she said that she was upset, but then she decided to pray for him. She said that he must have things in his life that make him like that, and that as she was speaking her whole church congregation was praying for him!

He also said that if she had won, he would have ripped the crown off of her head!

The greater gay community has apologized for his shameless tirade (good for them) and supposedly women's rights groups have spoken against this...(although, as Sean said, he hasn't actually heard N.O.W. (National Organization of Women) speak up anywhere--I wonder if that is because although women everywhere have been degraded by Perez's unbelievably offensive words, N.O.W. is notoriously liberal, and that means that they probably dislike having to defend a conservative Christian like the contestant).

Anyway, that is the latest....for the little time I was in the car to hear the show.

Alice

Pork Queen?

Some woman who relatively recently married one of the Battenbergs in England became known as the "Duchess of Pork" - which she understandably found offensive and hurtful. But a "Pork Queen"? Is this supposed to be an honor?

Fr. Serge

Alice and Terry -

so true.

I am reminded of the story of St. Nilus and the harlot Pelagia (who was known for her great beauty): as she rode naked through the streets of Antioch, all the clergy around Saint Nilus hid their faces, but he "gazed long and intently at her, then turning to those around him he said,'Did not the sight of her great beauty delight you? Verily, it greatly delighted me....'"

Not being Saint Nilus, or indeed Saint Anyone Else, I prefer those who appear in public to be fully clothed!

Fr. Serge

LOL!!

"Not being Saint Nilus, or indeed Saint Anyone Else, I prefer those who appear in public to be fully clothed! "

Having been in a Berlin park on a bright spring day that brought out hundreds of German "naturalists", I fully concur.

Me too--

This also raises a very interesting thing about Protestants, particularly American Protestants. Catholics often debate the balance of modesty and admiration of the beauty of the human body, etc. But Protestants have this weird obsession with not just the admiration of God's handiwork but with gilding the lily. A few years ago, my wife taught at a poor Southern public school where she was the frequent object of racial epithets ("cracker," "redneck," etc.) from her minority students.

At one point, during a lesson on Christianity (it was a history class), a student said, "You ain't no Christian!" This puzzled her. Then she tied it together with other snippets of conversations she'd overheard, and she realized that, to the populace who attended that school, the word "Christian" meant "someone who dresses nicely." (Not that my wife doesn't dress nicely, but she dresses like a modest Catholic woman).

While this discovery was made among African Americans, it's also true of white Southern Protestants. That was a huge part of the culture shock when my family first moved here 20 years ago: the amount of make-up girls wear, the way girls dress, etc.

To Evangelicals, it is somehow considered a matter of virtue for a woman to be vain.