www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Patriarch Lubomyr denounces Uniatism; urges one Orthodox-Catholic Church in Ukraine

You are right "Three Cents".
I should not have used "Hey" in responding to your post. Please forgive me.
Pavloosh

aren't there some instances where some Orthodox Churches are in communion with some Oriental Orthodox Churches and some other Orthodox Churches are Not in communion with those same (or that same) Oriental Orthodox Church?

Herb

I can say that one OCA bishop has authorized a priest/military chaplain to offer the Eucharist to Coptic Orthodox and it may be the general practice at least in the OCA. And I am sure if an Armenian or Assyrian Orthodox would have asked they would be welcomed.

Does the Assyrian Apostolic Catholic Church of the East use the term "Orthodox" of her members?

Incognitus

Dear I:

I think the Assyrian Church is called fully the "Holy Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East!"

Amado

Done per your request, Pavloosh.
Now I'm off to Moscow.

Christ Is Among Us! Indeed He Is And Ever Shall Be!

Three Cents!

I note the reconcilliation so my post is unecessary.

CDL

If indeed there are instances where:

--some Orthodox Churches ("x") are in communion with some Oriental Orthodox Churches ("y")

--while other Orthodox Churches "z" are NOT in communion with those same Oriental Orthodox Churches (y)

--but the same Orthodox Churches (z) while Not in communion with the Orientals (y) ARE in communion with those Orthodox Churches (x) that are in communion with these Oriental Orthodox Churches(y)

- then perhaps Patriarch Lubomyr's idea is not so "out to lunch" or far fetched or even pointless

-also it might follow that the question is not quite as "closed" and "settled" as it might seem, whatever the official, public, and, seems to me, interim reaction of such as the patriarchate of the First Rome.

--and there is hope?

Herb

Most of us in school will have learned the mathematical axiom that "things equal to the same thing are equal to each other". In the ecclesiology of the Christian East, this does not apply.

Incognitus

Incognitus,

That is because you are using western math :rolleyes: .

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Dear Father Antony,
Mathematics was never my forte!

your least brother in Christ,

Incognitus

Dear Father Incognitus,

Of course we forgive you - we know that torte is your forte.

so one possibility might be that:

- the various Orthodox Churches of Ukraine enter into communion with one another.

- (ok, this one is a bit of a stretch [but perhaps no more than the above condition]) that the various Orthodox Churches recognize the erstwhile MP Patriarch as the Patriarch of Kyiv and all Rus' - however, the now united Patriarchate become autocelphalous and is no longer under Moscow (de facto and not merely de iure) and maintains equally close relations both with Constantinople and Moscow.

- the UGCC enter into communion with the Orthodox Church of Ukraine and its Patriarch steps down as such - relinquishing the title in return for intercommunion and autonomy (but retaining its communion with its sister Catholic Churches)

- at this point, other Orthodox Churches may or may not recognise being in communion with the UGCC but remain in communion with the Orthodox Church of Ukraine.
- while at the same time, the Latin Patriarchate may or may not recognize communion with the Orthodox Churches, but maintain's its communion with the UGCC.

(thus we have a kind of parallel between this future scenario sketch by Patriarch Lubomyr and the present situation of some Orthodox Churches in communion with some Oriental Orthodox Churches while other Orthodox Churches are not)


.....dreaming in technicolour?

Herb

It sounds somewhat like the Melkite proposal which both sides shot down.

Andrew

I guess my point is, that the lack of immediate success to the Melkite initiative is no bar from the Ukrainians working it out.

Apparently this sort of thing exists, if I understand the previous posters correctly - e.g. between the Orthodox and certain of the Oriental Orthodox.

Therefore it could exists.

That the Latin Patriarchate did not sign on, is precisely the point. They would be the "z" category Churches in my scenario, i.e. those Orthodox churches that are not only not in communion with the Orientals but do not recognize it - yet nevertheless maintain communion with the Orthodox Churches (x) who are in communion with the Orientals (y).

essentially, I'm not so sure that the question is closed. I do agree that certain parties are closed to the question: e.g. certain Orthodox Churches and perhaps the Latin Patriarchate (or certain functionaries of it).

But I am hoping that certain Other parties are open to the question, including obviously the UGCC, perhaps the UAOC, the UOC-KP.

Maybe some even within the UOC-MP and the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

Here's hoping.

Of course this does not mean that a lot of work needs to be done, as well and at the same time (and perhaps not necessarily all before hand as a condition precedent).

Herb