www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Call to lift Catholic monarchy ban

Oh I will be the first to admit that we owe our freedom to the French fleet, more than to anything the American Patriots did. I think that gets forgotten everytime our country gets ticked-off with the French over something.

Dear Brother Alex,

You wrote:
I realize what you wrote was a simply relation of fact, so it should not be insulting to anyone. But I do want to point out, to level the playing field, that Protestants have been on the controlling end of the political joystick just as much as the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages.

Orthodoxy has been in the thick of politics just as much as Rome, as well, though Rome had more authority in her sphere than the Orthodox. Orthodox normally got the short end of the stick, but it is not so good for the Orthodox image either that the Orthodox have capitulated to secular pressures - sometimes too easily.

That Rome stood for the sanctity of the Sacrament of Marriage against the bigamy of Henry VIII is one of the shining moments of the Catholic Church. If Anglicans have ill feelings about that, then it is as the Lord said - "the world will hate you."

You obviously have very strong feelings about the monarchy. Is Canada generally a loyal subject of the crown?

Blessings,
Marduk

I am sooooooo stomping on my hands not to quote another punk song!!!!!!




I really really want to . . . .

Don't do it don't do it don't do it. . . .

Please excuse me as I go for a beer before I offend too many people with a light hearted reference that I will regret.

Dear Cizinec,

Siouxsie and the Banshees, "Regal Zone" (my favorite band, and a contemporary of that unmentionable punk rock group)

Long live Queen Camilla! Who says the wages of sin are all that bad? Sometimes they pay off handsomely.

Alex,

I see no disrespect toward Queen Victoria in incognitus' post. After all she did have as her consort Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. As you know we Yankees don't have much regard for royalty. After all we did rebel against Victoria's grandfather, George III. :p

As far as the Stuart line is concerned the German House of Hannover supplanted the House of Stuart. (Of course, it can be argued that George I, king of Great Britain and the elector of Hannover is of the Stuart line being a great-grandson on his mother's side of James I). I doubt very much that the Stuarts would considers themselves kin of Their Germanic Majesties. Of course, to distance themselves from their Germanic roots, George V (Victoria's grandson) changed the name of the royal house from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to Winsdor after King George declared war on his first cousin, Kaiser Wilhelm (another of Victoria's grandsons). Of course, we know that war as World War I.

My understanding that the royal house is now styled Mountbatten-Windsor, Mountbatten being Prince Phillip's family name, which is the anglicized form of the original German "Battenburg". No offense, but not much Scot Stuart blood in those veins.

To add fuel to the fire...would we be seeing a call anytime soon to lift the non-Catholic monarchy band in Belgium and Spain?

The Dean

Fr Deacon John,

I think Incognitus meant it as a sign of disrespect.

You don't know the Stuart supporters like I do!

The Stuarts were named successors to the Tudor line when Queen Elizabeth I, suffering from guilt over her complicity in the death of Mary, Queen of Scots, named her son as the next King of England.

King James I was no nice fellow and didn't care a wit about his mother.

That is not to say that Charles I and others weren't exemplary.

Long live King Juan Carlos of Spain (His motto "Plus Ultra" refers to the lands of the former Spanish Empire as you know).

Alex

Alex- your admiration for the decadent descendents of those German upstarts continues to amaze me. As for me, Scotsman and Irishman that I am, I await the King Over the Water!

Alex,

Unlike their neighbors to the north, Mexicans and others of the former Spanish American Empire rebelled against the French usuper of the Spanish throne, Joseph Bonaparte, elder brother of Napoleon. After the fall of the Emperor, the Borb�n dynasty was restored to the Spanish throne in the person of Ferdinand VII, who had been forced by Napoleon to abdicate the throne in favor of Joseph. Then the Mexican insurgents negotiated with the restored Spanish monarchy, the Plan of Iguala and the Treaty of Cordoba (Feb and Aug, 1821). By the terms of the plan and the ratifying treaty, the new Empire of Mexico was free and independent from Spain. The new imperial throne of Mexico was offered first to Ferdinand VII, then to his brothers the infantes Carlos, Francisco, or Carlos Luis, with the provision that the monarch settle in Mexico. The Spanish Viceroy, Lt. General Don Juan O'Donnoju (O'Donohue), signed the treaty on behalf of the Spanish crown. General Agustin de Iturbide negotiated the treaty on behalf of the Mexican forces.

However within a year (Feb 1822), the Spanish Cortes (parliment) nullified the treaty. In May 1822, the Mexican Congress proclaimed Don Agustin de Iturbide the Emperor of Mexico. Taking the name Agustin I (should have been "the Only"), the new emperor was crowned on July 21, 1822. (That's a date not many Mexicans probably remember.) Because of various factions within Congress, the emperor desolved that body on October 22, 1822. On December 1, 1882, General Antonio Lopez de Santa Ana (yes, the same one of the Alamo infamy), commander of the garrison in Veracruz, rose against Iturbide and proclaimed a republic. Within a year, March 19, 1823, the emperor was forced to abdicate, and he and his family were exiled to Italy.

In April 1824 the Congress, declared Iturbide a traitor. Thinking that Mexico was in chaos, and the masses wanted him back in power, Iturbide returned to Mexico in July 1824. Hoping to restore the imperial throne, he was apprehended on arrival in Tamaulipas and executed.

As you can see Alex, Americans don't treat royalty very well. Juan Carlos' predecessor was smart to decline the Mexican throne and remain in Spain.

At the risk of appearing dense, I fail to grasp why a reference to Mrs. Saxe-Coburg-Gotha's nose getting out of joint could be considered much more than a non-recognition of her pretensions to certain thrones to which her descent did not entitle her. Her married name was indeed Saxe-Coborgh-Gotha (and it remained the name of her family until WWI), and anyone who knows her biography will be aware that the suggestion that her nose got out of joint is, if anything, merciful.
I shall gladly join in a toast to King Juan Carlos, as well as a toast to King Francis of Bavaria and the Three Kingdoms. Might be nice to include the King of the Belgians while we're at it - I hope somebody is serving an abundant supply of good champagne.
Incognitus

As for the royals - a pox on all their houses. May their houses be turned into dunghills and all manner of other biblical curses be heaped upon them. However, I did admire the Queen Mother tremendously. Now there was a lady of character.

Dear Deacon John,

Is there still a monarchist movement in Mexico ?

Hritzko

Dear Iconophile, I ,too, being of partially Scottish descent, await the "King over the water." Sadly, it seems that my Highland ancestors wer of the hated Campbell Clan, certainly no Jacobites.It may be that on the Ukrainian side,I do have a Jacobite ancestor.My father's mother's maiden name was 'Michailiuk".According to dad, an ancestor named 'Michaels" arrived in Ukraine back in the 1700's.In time the name was Ukrainianised.That part of Ukraine was then Poland, later becoming part of Russia after Poland was partioned. Bonnie Prince Charlie was Polish on his mother's side and many of his followers did find refuge in Poland. By the way, anyone know if any descendants of Ukrainian Hetman Pavlo Skoropadskyj are still around as claimants to the Ukrainian throne?

Anton,
Depends on what kind of music they're playing.
Stephanos I