www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall African nation’s priests go on strike

African nation's priests go on strike [catholicculture.org]

So some places of the world just ignore the Churches teachings on celibacy?

Run to the mountains and beg them to cover you.

"The investigation, conducted by Archbishop Robert Sarah, the Guinea-born secretary of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, concluded that many local priests have homes and children. "

Ah, traditionalists! Or perhaps the good Archbishop deems it safer to overlook how, until, well, the 19th century, in many parts of the world Catholic priests practiced concubinage (because marriage was prohibited) with the full knowledge and approval of the people in their parishes.

Or, as an Italian aphorism has it, "A priest is a man whom everyone calls 'Father'--except for his children, who must call him 'Uncle"".

I think we'd better stop criticizing the Muslims for having multiple wives in order to provide for them.

CDL

Christ is in our midst!!

Isn't this the same thing we heard about in the Father Cutie thread and links? There are some parts of the world where clerical celibacy is "winked at," including South America and now Africa. It's probably more a cultural thing--evangelization hasn't sunk in far enough. But the issue of celibacy is not doctrinal; it's disciplinary and can be changed though there doesn't seem to be much traction to do so.

BOB

I will have to inform my five children of this. That will mean that I've just added considerably to the number of my nieces and nephews!

Fr David Straut

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!

I have to wonder if this country is being made an example. Surely from some of the other tidbits out there on the net this is something that goes on in other places. Why is there an investigation of this one country?

I wonder if history will repeat itself. The Church tried to nullify all clergy marriages in Germany at one point and had all kinds of problems with the status of the clergy children who were suddenly deemed illegitimate. Then there was that little flap at the Council of Trent when the Scandanavian bishops arrived with their families in tow and were refused their seats at the council. Wonder why they became Lutheran?

BOB

"So some places of the world just ignore the Churches teachings on celibacy?"

Pretty much, yes. Sometimes more blatantly, sometimes less. It took the Latin Church close to four centuries to gain nominal compliance with priestly celibacy, but it was never able completely to keep priests from taking concubines (many indistinguishable from wives) and raising families.

There are some wonderful palaces in Salzburg that were built by the Prince-Archbishops for their mistresses and their children. Clerical celebacy has been hard to enforce over the centuries. As happened in the internatinal child abuse scandals part of the problem was too many clerics having the dirt on each other and therefore not being able to enforce any standards, so the problems/abuses went on and on.

Bob,

Do you have some kind of reference to back this up or is this a figment of your imagination?

The Council of Trent took place from 1545 to 1563. The Lutheran reformation started in 1517. In Denmark-Norway the reformation had been legally introduced by 1537. The last Norwegian archbishop, Olav Engelbrektson, died in 1538 in exile in the Low Countries.

Who are these Scandinavian bishops that you imagine turned up at Trent with their concubines and children in tow?

LC:

It was a comment made by a Lutheran minister some years ago. Not knowing the historic timeline, I assumed he had his facts straight.

BOB

Anti-Catholic propaganda needs verification.

And, yes, Bob, according to my 60-something year old African Lit professor who grew up in Catholic schools in Tanzania, much of the "Catholic" population there views the idea of one man-one wife as "silly White men's ideas" that are really unimportant. Some of them have numerous wives and attend Mass every Sunday.
Apparently they have their own unique brand of cafeteria Catholcism.

It seems the evangelization of even Christian Africans is NOWHERE near complete.

Alexis

Dear Latin Catholic,

There was a nicer way that you could have said this! If you follow this Forum, you know that Bob isn't one to provoke people.

You could have said something like "Bob, I think that this story may be apocryphal. I don't think this story you have recounted fits in with the historic timeline of the Scandinavian Reformation. " And then recount the facts as you know them.

A good motto for us is "Charity before all."

Fr David Straut

I agree!! The tone of this post was not charitable at all! Please be more careful in the future, Latin Catholic. Thank you.

Alice, MODERATOR

I'm descended from a Spanish missionary. No kidding. After two centuries, though, all that's left of my Spanish side is my facial and body hair. LOL.

We have the same problem in the Philippines. It is no secret that many priests (especially in the provinces) have girl-friends or even live-in partners.

The story of the Scandinavian bishops may or may not be true. I have not managed to find any reference to their presence, but did discover that the Reformation in Sweden was so complete that no invitations whatsoever were sent to anyone in that country. Now, Denmark and Norway are very different places from Sweden, so there very well may have been Catholic bishops in those countries.

I agree and would like to apologize to Bob. I am sorry.

You have to understand that until very recently most Norwegian Lutherans were very strongly anti-Catholic. What upset me about Bob's post was that he was repeating some fairly stupid anti-Catholic slander, something which I hadn't expected from him.

Even so my tone was definitely harsh and I am sorry about that.

Your apology to Bob is appreciated. Please note that Bob *is* Roman Catholic and a pretty devout one at that!!

In Christ,
Alice, Moderator

LC, Alexis, Father David, and Alice:

Christ is in our midst!!

I apologize for taking this thread off on a tangent by a statement I'd heard from a minister I was driving to a service as part of my duties. The context was clerical celibacy and the part it played in the Reformation. It was something I'd never heard before and didn't have the resources to check. I assumed that the man had spoken in good faith since I'd never known him to have any anti-Catholic attitudes. In fact, he and his wife--also a Lutheran minister--had often discussed liturgical and theological points with me, and we'd always been friends: she and I share a common ethnic background.

I guess the lesson here is to take such historical anecdotes with a grain of salt and let them pass.

Thanks for your patience and let's get back to topic. I still have a lingering question:



BOB

Back to the point: it is apparently the case that these priests suspended all liturgical activities during this "strike," in other words, depriving God's People from fulfilling their duties to worship Him through the Sacrifice of the Mass and the other Sacraments, and depriving God Himself of His right to be worshipped by His children.

I have scarcely heard of something so despicably unholy. It is such a stunning, aggressive transgression of the most basic Christian principles that it is painful to imagine. It almost makes me physically ill.

God, have mercy on their souls!

Alexis

Alexis,

Who is to say they are not using the most effective means they know of to make their voice heard and address what they perceive to be an injustice committed against God's people?


That is quite likely how these priests feel about Rome's actions--let us not forget that there are two sides to every issue!


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Probably more going wrong over there than just priests having affairs, is my guess.

Father Deacon Richard,

I have to say I am very discouraged by your words.

Most effective? Maybe! That is absolutely beside the point. What they are doing is withholding from the faithful their right and duty to worship God. They are, in effect, blackmailing the Church by withholding the Sacraments! Even if they have a valid point to believe what they do (and I don't think they do), it is not their right to deprive God of worship due to Him, and to deprive the people their road to salvation by offering worship to God.

As I said, this goes against the very heart of our religion. It is shamefully, painfully scandalous.

I am discouraged that this even needs an explanation.

Alexis

By the way, I really am not trying to speak hyperbolically! It's very distressing to me, and I would expect it to be to others.

Alexis