www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall George Tiller shot to death in church this morning

There are a lot of articles posted on spiritdaily.com that seem to give a pretty good overview of the whole situation. http://www.spiritdaily.com/

I must be one of the few who have never heard of this guy. Unfortunately, something like this does cause many to paint pro-life folks as "violent." The pro-lifers I know are some of the world's most gentle people.

I think the act itself was almost as despicable as the terrible, inhuman crimes this man committed against the innocent unborn. I do not rejoice in the death of a sinner, but rather pray that God has mercy on his soul, on the soul of the very disturbed man who was his killer, on the Tiller family and friends and on all those involved in the abortion industry that profits off of the blood of the innocent.

Such violent acts as these only serve to destroy not only the particular lives of its victims, but also the worthy cause of defending all human life - from womb to tomb.

Lord have mercy!

We live in very confused times...

To take a person's life in the act of murder, without giving them the chance of a natural death to reflect upon their sins in old age is doubly evil...

The murderer will have the chance to reflect and repent, but he has taken that opportunity away from another.

This is where our passions can get so carried away and can make people commit horrendous acts thinking that they are doing good.
Ofcourse, the ease in which those who are 'passionate' can settle scores with handguns is another factor.

On the other hand, I believe that whether it is from murder, accident, illness or natural death, God has written the time which we shall all leave this earth. That is why we need to try to ready ourselves as much as possible...(I am saddened especially with the sudden death of teens and young adults who have often not had the chance to grow spiritually and change their lives and lifestyles)...

This is where our prayers for the salvation of our friends and family is so necessary, so that just maybe they will not be taken suddenly without repentence.

Just some random thoughts...

Lord have mercy on all in these crazy and confused times.

Alice

ALICE:

We used to say a little prayer at the end of our prayers in the Latin Church that went like this:

"From a sudden and unprovided death, deliver us, O Lord."

BOB

Before I continue I will simply state I do not condone this man's actions. That said, I can see how some, especially those suffering from mental illness (which seems to be the case in many of these instances) could come to the conclusion that this was a necessary action in defense of life.

If one saw a man heading into a hospital nursery armed and declaring his intent to murder the newborns and shot him, he would be hailed as a hero.

Christians state there is no difference between those newborns and the unborns Mr. Tiller was murdering. So some will naturally ask the question why should the defense of the unborn be any less than what would be heralded for the newborn.

Of course the answer, for the right thinking mind, is we live in a nation of laws. For civilized society to function we must obey them, often when we disagree with them.

Some will say, but God's law trumps man's law. To this I would simply cite the behavior of the early Church. The Roman Empire allowed many practices of which the Church did not approve. Slavery, gladiatorial games, execution of Christians, etc. Yet we do not find the Church leading uprisings to free slaves, end the games, or even save themselves or their fellow Christians. Life was not taken, only given and that only in order to avoid denial of Christ.

What is most unfortunate about this incident is that it will be used as further propaganda to paint all pro-lifers as hateful extremists.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Interesting thoughts and points....

Alice

A random thought, I do not condone the act, but Dr. Tiller did have prior incidents of violent acts against him and did not change his ways, and it happened in a reformed Lutheran Church that appeared to have no problem with his profession...

This surprised me, too. I didn't realize that the Lutheran church was so tolerant of abortion. The local Lutherans in my area are not so liberal on this issue.

Fr. Deacon Lance,

You wrote:
"What is most unfortunate about this incident is that it will be used as further propaganda to paint all pro-lifers as hateful extremists."

Probably, but does that make any difference? The world hates us because we love Christ. If not this then something else. The enemies of Christ will always find ways to attack the Church. Rejoice when persecuted. There's nothing really unfortunate about us. We aren't even supposed to be trying to gain the friendship of the world.


CDL

Yes, it makes a huge difference because it gives ammunition to those who would distort and cheapen our witness of Jesus Christ. It allows those who hold views that are evil to present us as the violent and evil ones.

It is certainly true that the world will always hate us because we love Christ. But do not adopt the mentality of looking for persecution. Our goal is always and must always be to convert the world to Christ. Never rejoice in what is wrong, such as the murder of this abortionist. What he did - murder by abortion - was wrong. But murdering him was also wrong.

I appreciate Randall Terry's approach.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/01/AR2009060102058.html?hpid=topnews

I am approving this post but with great reservation. I do so only bcause it shows the diversity of responses to Dr. Tiller's murder.

Let us remember that--as other Moderators have pointed out--we have no right to play God, play Judge, or to take a human life regardless of the way we feel about the actions of another. While we may judge Dr. Tiller's actions to be morally reprehensible, that does not justify anyone taking the man's life. Nor can we pretend to judge his motivations--only the Lord Himself can search hearts.

As followers of Christ, we have only one model, that of Christ from the Cross--"Father, forgive them. They know not what they do."

Oh God, be merciful to those who hate us and maltreat us, and cause not one of them to be lost because of us, sinners.

BOB
Moderator

A warning: this and like threads will be closed if any uncharitable postings are added that seem to imply for any reason that this man's murder is acceptable.

Differently than I would have put it, but yes. Thank you; another way to put it.

I struggled with this issue for a long time myself. How can stopping someone who will kill several people next week *not* be justified?

Prior to this, I did a trial pro bono for Operation Rescue because, even though I disagreed with their methods, I couldn't find a better answer, and that if it had been any other cause (Whales, South Africa, etc.) attorneys would have lined up to represent them.

Ultimately, it came to this: aborting the abortionist is the same crime that he is committing.

Now, if killing a particular abortionist would actually *end* abortion once and for all, you're back into the killing young Hitler with foreknowledge of his evil question--but that is *not* the case with any given abortionist in the U.S.

And on further reflection to Alice's comment: giving him the chance to repent is important--but if not giving him that prevents several of his murders? I'm not quite sure . . .

sidenote: for the Rescue that I represented, four babies were born by the choice of their mother as a direct result.

hawk

I post the following link of an article that appeared in the New York Times as followup with minimal comment. This article discusses the aftermath of Dr. Tiller's death which has left Operation Rescue and other groups of the same ilk in Wichita without a cause to protest in the city. It's headline says it all: "Closed Clinic Leaves Abortion Protesters at a Loss."


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/08/us/08wichita.html?scp=1&sq=wichita,%20ks&st=cse

I'd rather see pro-life activists at a loss than see them with much ground to protest.