www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology RUN from places of sin....

-- Run from places of sin as from the plague. For when fruit is not present, we have no frequent desire to eat it.

--St. John Climacus

Amen.

That being said, one could say that there are probably many more places of sin today than in the past...even in our own homes...ie: all over the television and computer...and some of it even seems benign and isn't even the obvious places of sin...sometimes 'running' from it involves a click to the next channel because of an image or subject, or not reading a casual and catchy article on an internet news page, etc....

It could even be an 'all you can eat buffet' at a restaurant (gluttony)!!!

A mall where we will be tempted to spend money on things we really do not need...

Or a popular movie or book or song or concert...

Or a family or social gathering, or a meeting with an old friend or a new friend or acquaintance where we know where there will be much mean spirited gossip...

Even church groups can be toxic sometimes in the realm of mean spirited gossip or busybodiness!

A telephone conversation where we know the person will engage us and entice us into too much idle talk...

The Christian today needs to be very careful and vigilant...It seems that those place os sin that St. John Climacus speaks of are all around us these days!

OOF!!! Lord have mercy!

Alice...thank you for the amplification of the words of Saint John Climacus. "Ladders" go two ways; let's always climb! :-)

Ray

Places of sin can also be within our own thoughts. Too often people are plauged by thoughts of things and actions from their past. We must learn to take authority over them, telling them to flee in the Name of Jesus. So then, we are no longer dwelling on those things that Christ has forgiven through the grace of his priests. A prayer I use for many people that Alice sent be years ago is really good for this, but we - as people of God - must be willing to 'accept' that Christ has set us free, and give Him thanks and praise for what he has done.

Prayer (called 'vaskania' in Greek)

God, our Lord, King of ages, All-powerful and All-mighty, you who made everything and who transform everything simply
by your will. You who in Babylon changed into dew the flames of the "seven-times hotter" furnace and protected and saved the three holy children. You are the doctor and the physician of our soul. You are the salvation of those who turn to you. We beseech you to make powerless, banish, and drive out every diabolic power, presence, and machination; every evil influence, malefice, or evil eye and all evil actions aimed against your servant: *blank*...where there is envy and malice, give *blank* an abundance of goodness, endurance, victory, and charity. O Lord, you who love man, we beg you to reach out your powerful hands and your most high and mighty arms and come to our aid. Help *blank* who is made in your image; send the angel of peace over us, to protect us body and soul. May he keep at bay and vanquish every evil power, every poison or malice invoked against us by corrupt and envious people. Then, under the protection of your authority may we sing, in gratitude, "The Lord is our salvation; whom should we fear? I will not
fear evil because you are with us, my God, my strength, my powerful Lord, Lord of peace, Father of all ages." Yes, Lord our God, be merciful to *blank*, your image, and save your servant, *blank*...from every threat or harm from the evil one, and
protect us all by raising us above all evil. We ask you this through the intercession of our Most Blessed, Glorious Lady, Mary ever Virgin, Mother of God, of the most splendid archangels and all your saints. Amen!"

Dear Pani Rose,

I hadn't thought about it, but you are right...those places of sin can be our minds and imaginations, not just in guilt over our past, but also in fantasies and entertaining of sin (judging or critiquing another in our minds, romantic thoughts, lustful thoughts, greedy thoughts, envious thoughts, revengeful thoughts), etc.

These 'logismoi' should always be rebuked immediately in the name of Jesus through the Jesus prayer and not entertained.

It seems to me there are so many places of sin to run from that, although we try to not put ourselves into obvious temptations, the only place we can really find refuge is in asking for and trusting in Jesus' mercy and forgiveness and the grace His Holy Spirit gives us to be stronger Christians when we do come face to face with those many places of sin within and without.

In Christ,
Alice

Well Alice, I never knew what these sins were called. Thanks

Logismoi or Assaultive Thoughts

Understanding assaultive thoughts and how to deal with them is key to living a victorious life in Christ. Logismoi, (pronounced, log-is-mee) are thoughts and thought/images that come to us to lead us away from Christ. The are distracting and are a result of the fall of mankind. There are many church fathers who teach us how to identify them and how to deal with them. St. John Climacus in his Ladder of Divine Ascent speak of various stages of how they afflict us and how we should deal with them. Kyriacos Markides, a sociologist from the University of Maine explores this understanding in his conversation with Fr. Maximos who is a monk from Mount Athos which is outlined in his book, "The Mountain of Silence." The book is a must read for anyone who struggles with their thoughts and wants to be free.
Excerpts from the Mountain of Silence by Kyriacos Markides in his conversation with Fr. Maximos on the stages of Logismoi

“The holy elders,” Father Maximos claimed, “identify five stages in the development of a logismos. Of course, I am speaking of a logismos that goes contrary to God’s laws. The first is the assault stage, when the logismos first attacks our mind.”

“Let me give you an example. A thought enters our mind in the form of a suggestion urging us, let us say, to steal. It is as if this logismos knocks at the door of our mind and tells us: ‘Look at this pile of money. Nobody is looking. Take it.’


“When such a logismos strikes, no matter how sinful it may be, it does not render us accountable,” Father Maximos explained. “The quality of our spiritual state is not evaluated on the basis of these assaults. In simple language we commit no sin. The holy elders throughout the ages were relentlessly tempted and assaulted by similar and even worse logismoi.



“The second stage according to the holy elders is what they called interaction. It implies opening up of a dialog, an actual exchange with the logismos. When a logismos urges you, for example, to steal that pile of money, you begin to wonder, ‘Should I or should I not? What’s going to happen if I steal it? What’s going to happen if I don’t steal it?’ This is risky and dangerous. However, even at this stage there is no accountability on the part of the individual, no sin committed as yet. The person can indeed examine such a logismos and consider several options without being accountable. But if the person is weak by temperament, then defeat may be the most likely outcome of that exposure to the logismos.”



The third stage in the progression of a logismos is the stage of consent as we would say. You consent to commit what the logismos urges you to do, in this particular case, to steal money. You have made a decision. That’s when guilt and accountability start to emerge. It is the beginning of sin. Jesus was referring to this stage when he proclaimed that if you covet a woman in your mind you have already committed adultery in your heart. The moment this decision is allowed to take root in your heart, then you are well on the way to actually committing the act in the outer world.”



“In the event that a person is unable to free himself from the previous stage, then there is defeat. He becomes hostage to the logismos. The moment the person succumbs, the next time around the logismos returns with greater force. It is much more difficult to resist then. And so it is with the next time and the time after that. The holy elders called it the stage of captivity. That’s when the person can no longer retreat and proceeds along with this act which now becomes a habit that is repeated time and again.”



“Finally, the holy elders identify the end stage in the evolution of a logismos as that of a passion or obsession. The logismos has become an entrenched reality within the consciousness of the person, within the nous. The person becomes a captive of obsessive logismoi, leading to ongoing destructive acts to oneself and to others, such as in the case of a compulsive gambler. The holy elders have warned us that when we become dominated by such passions it is like giving the key or our heart to Satan so that he can get in and out any time he wishes. We see a lot of our brothers and sisters struggling desperately to overcome their obsessive passions and addictions but without much success. They are fully aware that what they do is self-destructive. They are capable of reasoning with clarity of mind, but their heart is captive. They cannot eject from themselves that negative energy that possesses and controls them.”


“So what can be done about these people? Are they beyond hope of freeing themselves from their destructive passions?” I asked.


“Through the Grace of the Holy Spirit everything is possible, including their healing,” Father Maximos replied. Then, like a good teacher, he summarized the five stages.


“So, we have five stages in the evolution of a logismos,” he concluded, spreading out the five fingers of his right hand. “Assault, interaction, consent, captivity, and passion. These are more or less all the stages. They unfold and grow within us sometimes gradually, sometimes like an avalanche.”
So how do we handle them?

The answer is surprising. We ignore them. That is what the Church fathers tell us to do. They explain that they are like flies and we are to bat them away. From a neurological perspective this makes perfect sense. We don't want to think about the thought or even dialogue with it as it will grow even more. That brain cells that we neglect will eventually die. This should give any of us hope who has struggled with unwanted thoughts. When the logismoi, like the unwanted salesmen comes to the door, we are to shut the door and not to even dialogue with him. To invited him into our house or our heart constitute sin--sin of the heart. The first two stages are not sin. This should make it easier to ignore the first two stages, assault and dialogue.

Of course, praying the Jesus Prayer is a great replacement for a repetitive assaultive thoughts. St. Mark the Ascetic said that he gave credit for his prayer life to satan. Every time he was tempted by the devil, he prayed; thus, he prayed a lot. St. John Chrysostom talks about how a thief will not disturb a house where there is a party going on inside. So it is with the heart of the person who says the Jesus prayer continually. Logismoi, we are told, will always be with us in this life. Even the holiest of people still have to contend with them....
http://orthodoxcounselor.com/logismoi.htm

I was googleing the word Logismoi that Alice introduced me to, I came across this blog. It seems to be an interesting, and I thought some might enjoy it.
http://logismoitouaaron.blogspot.com/

Nous, Logismoi,and the Philokalia
8 01 2008

“Orthodox spirituality places great emphasis on the nous, or mind (intellect), and the thoughts, logismoi, that the mind produces. It does so because everything we do begins in the nous with thoughts (logismoi). ‘As a man thinks in his heart, so is he’, we read in Proverbs…..

Philokalia, as you may know, means ‘love of the beautiful’. It is an anthology of spiritual writings by church fathers, ranging from the fourth to the fifteenth century. St. Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain called the Philokalia, ‘The treasury of watchfulness, the keeper of the mind, the mystical school of prayer of the heart…the paradise of the Fathers…the deep teaching of Christ, the trumpet which calls back the grace….the instrument itself of deification.’ “-Fr. Anthony Coniaris

* A good introduction for someone who is new to Orthodox spirituality and is interested in the Philokalia is Confronting and Controlling Thoughts:According to the Fathers of the Philokalia by Fr. Anthony Coniaris from where the above quotation comes.
http://josephpatterson.wordpress.com/2008/01/08/nous-logismoiand-the-philokalia/[i][/i]

I found this extremely powerful:


The following is an echo of Christ's words to the disciples after the Ressurrection.


I will have to read more. Thanks for the link.

It also reminds me of Jonah sitting under the bush, waiting to see what would happen in Ninaveh. He was not really praying for the people, rather he was fussing at God. God will give us the comfort of the 'shady tree' if we are willing to take up the cross of prayer for other souls. The comfort of the 'shady tree' is not of course the tree, but the peace that dwells within the heart.

just a thought

Two Lungs, where did you find the The Spiritual Father in Orthodox Christianity?

Funny, I just ordered Mountain of Silence for a second read.

After reading the first post I thought to myself, wow,when I am more aware of occasions of sin I really know that Christians really are strangers in a strange land. Sometimes that's a scary thought because, I'm afraid I'll end up so different from my friends and family,that we'll be aliens to one another. Sometimes for that reason I don't want to give up that favorite song that I now realize is a bit too risque or the friends whose company is not as edifying as I used to believe.Yet, at the same time I don't enjoy it in quite the same way anymore either.

Alice, your posts are always so inspiring, and Pani Rose's commentaries so wise. What would we do without you two?

Alice,

How true! Thank you for this.

Alexis