www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Was about RDL, Spinoff about titles and respect

The Church is (or at least was) attempting to democratize, and I think the removal of archaic references to men in orders is one step in that direction. Jesus himself rejected the titles that some of his followers attempted to laud upon him. Christ did not come to be a King or a noble, and our Church is, at least I like to believe, transitioning from an absolute monarchy to at least a constitutional monarchy.

I agree that in this era where the dignity of the priest is so very compromised by endless scandal, and lack of fidelity, that we Catholics should defend the priesthood, though not at the expense of our (ie: laity) emerging equality.

I personally do not like titles, I have always called my parents by their first names, and I believe egalitarianism is integral in Christ's message. Since it is a rule of this (to quote Rev. Mr. Lance) forum to use titles then I shall, though under protest.

I believe clerical titles implictly disempower the laity, and reinforce an authoritarianism that has no place in the 21st century. I reverence the office that clerics hold, but that does not (for me) extend to confusing the office with the man.

When I chose the name "Predanije" (transliterated from the Slavonic) I did so in the spirit of Acts 4:32, not Mt 16:18.

Abuna is appropriate for Ethiopian and Coptic hierarchs; among the Maronites and Melkites, it is used to address a priest. Mor is used by the Syriacs and those of the Indian Churches to address their hierarchs.

The Maronites and Melkites (and, not uncommonly the Syriacs as well) ordinarily address a bishop as Sayedna.

Many years,

Neil

Thanks, Neil. I didn't know that.

Sayedna will do.

In a Hierarchical Maronite Liturgy the Bishop is referred to as Sayedna when he is asked to give the blessings (by the reader before the Epistle, by priests for the Bishop to finish one of the prayers, etc...).

I have a question, would Metropolitan Basil be referred to as "Your Beatitude" or "Your Emminence"? I have only heard him referred to as the latter, but that does not make it proper.

"Eminence" is the usual honorific for a Metropolitan, while "Beatitude" is generally reserved for the Patriarch.

In Catholic usage Eminence is reserved for Cardinals (although it is applied to Metropolitan Basil), Beatitude for Patriarchs, Excellency for all other bishops. Among the Orthodox Eminence is used for Archbishops (except those of Cyprus and Athens who addressed as Beatitude) and Metropolitans.
http://www.goarch.org/resources/etiquette

In my opinion we should adopt more Eastern styles of address for our bishops but also translate the Greek/Slavonic correctly. Eminence is title of Western European origin and is not a good translation of Sevasmiotatos/Ego Vysoko Preosviashchenstvo, which would be Most Reverend, which is how it is translated in our Liturigcal books. I think Archbishops and Metropolitans who are primates should be Beatitude/Most Blessed.

This was along the lines of my logic.

"I think Archbishops and Metropolitans who are primates should be Beatitude/Most Blessed."

They are most definitely to be numbered among the higher primates.

What was the question, again?????

Beatitude is also the title for the curious position of Major Archbishop which Rome created for our Churches.

Many years,

Neil

Standard usage according to the GOA reckoning leaves one with "Eminence" for a Metropolitan, and "Beatitude" or "Holiness" for Patriarchs. I think it is a good thing to be consistent with terminology of the parallel Orthodox churches when possible. One exception does stand out - "Holiness" in Catholic usage is reserved for the Pope, and hence that term would seem to be reserved at all levels and all particular Churches.

The general schema at least in the UGCC for English renderings as long as I can remember (namely "Your Grace" for bishops, "Your Eminence" for Metropolitans, and "Your Beatitude" for Patriarchs) parallels the GOA usage. The only difference is that we do not make a distinction between "titular Metropolitan" and "Metropolitan" and use "Eminence" for all Metropolitans.

These terms seem to work well enough in English for both Greek and Slavic translations, while they may not be as literally translated from the Greek or Slavonic they are sometimes actually more clear, for example since "Most Reverend" is often used for addressing certain ranks of presbyters both in Catholic and Orthodox usage using something like this for a Metropolitan would likely not work.

I would actually prefer the GOA schema, which is a fairly common one in Orthodox usage, be used liturgically as well in English. Some of our priests and deacons in the UGCC do interject "His Eminence our most reverend" when commemorating the Metropolitan and "His Beatitude our most blessed Patriarch" when commemorating +Lubomyr.

Regarding "Beatitude" for +Basil, I have never heard any clergy refer to Metropolitan Basil as "Beatitude", and when asking another BCCA bishop for his opinion in this regard about four years ago, he adamantly indicated NOT to refer to +Basil as such, but rather by "Eminence". I don't have an opinion either way but will leave it to the BCCA Council of Hierarchs to determine how they want to be addressed. Currently the Metropolitan is "Eminence" as referred to by both the other BCCA bishops http://www.parma.org/Eparchy_Parma.asp as well as the ACROD. Although I haven't read BCW for a while, as I recall the editorial acknowledgement also refers to +Basil as "Eminence".